NFHS Rules: Pitcher's Stances.

[maven]

Many MLB pitchers use a "hybrid" stance, and it's allowed at that level with no runners on base. Cliff Lee is notorious. Here's his windup position:

[johnnyg08]

Here's what I found in OBR regarding the Set Position:

The Set Position. Set Position shall be indicated by the pitcher when he stands facing the batter with his pivot foot in contact with, and his other foot in front of, the pitcher’s plate, holding the ball in both hands in front of his body and coming to a complete stop.


Bob, maybe I should've used the term "the set" rather than "the stretch" or do we still disagree on what is or is not legal?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by maven

Many MLB pitchers use a "hybrid" stance, and it's allowed at that level with no runners on base. Cliff Lee is notorious. Here's his windup position:

Yes -- this is the "hybrid" position. Might be confusing to runners.

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Here's what I found in OBR regarding the Set Position:

The Set Position. Set Position shall be indicated by the pitcher when he stands facing the batter with his pivot foot in contact with, and his other foot in front of, the pitcher’s plate, holding the ball in both hands in front of his body and coming to a complete stop.


Bob, maybe I should've used the term "the set" rather than "the stretch" or do we still disagree on what is or is not legal?

The free foot does not need to be *directly* in front of the rubber (that is, within the edges of the rubber extended). JUst in front of a line throught the front of the rubber extended.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by maven

Many MLB pitchers use a "hybrid" stance, and it's allowed at that level with no runners on base. Cliff Lee is notorious. Here's his windup position:

It's allowed at that level with or without runners on base. Of course, the windup from that position would only be used with the appropriate runner situation. Why it's allowed is up for debate. I say current OBR wording has no free foot position restriction. Wendlestedt says that while it's not legal (which I disagree with) there is no advantage gained by the pitcher and in fact an advantage for the runner so don't penalize it.

In the future, if someone wanted to sharpshoot the current OBR wording it might present a problem. This last season a pitcher got away with a quick pitch while standing sideways and he did not come set or windup, he just rared away and threw. Pissed off the batter but no call.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by maven

Many MLB pitchers use a "hybrid" stance, and it's allowed at that level with no runners on base. Cliff Lee is notorious. Here's his windup position:

Every so often I will get a pitcher with their non-pivot a little in front of the rubber. I just let them know is it a balk (NFHS), and go about my business. This way they know it is a balk, and they don't get balked for the infraction later in the season.

I always get a little irritated when a coach or player says, "The umpire in the last game let us do it." True or not, I still don't what to hear it.

I haven't read an OBR rule book in a while, but I don't think this stance is exactly covered in it.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Every so often I will get a pitcher with their non-pivot a little in front of the rubber. I just let them know is it a balk (NFHS), and go about my business. This way they know it is a balk, and they don't get balked for the infraction later in the season.

I always get a little irritated when a coach or player says, "The umpire in the last game let us do it." True or not, I still don't what to hear it.

I haven't read an OBR rule book in a while, but I don't think this stance is exactly covered in it.

Sometimes that works, but for me I just balk it. In my experience kids don't learn anything from warnings.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Every so often I will get a pitcher with their non-pivot a little in front of the rubber. I just let them know is it a balk (NFHS), and go about my business.

Huh? What do you mean you "go about my business"? Are you not calling it a balk when you see it?

[jkumpire]

Fed goes OOO again IMO.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Huh? What do you mean you "go about my business"? Are you not calling it a balk when you see it?

Baseball is played by many players at different age levels, and many different skill levels. No, I'm not a coach, and I don't subscribe to the mainstream theorists that believe doing so is a mortal sin. I've worked with some of the best high school umpires, and they would think me an idiot to enforce it down to the very miniscule teeniest wording of the rule.

I played the game for many years at some high levels, so I believe in passing on pertinent information when possible. The ball field is like a classroom for me. I'm not sending everyone to the Principal's office. Just the way I feel about things.

[egj13]

I have definately seen this evolution of pitching form over the years. Here in MT, alot of the kids that come down from Canada use this "hybrid" pitching motion. They stand at a 45, with their pivot foot essentially already parallel with the rubber...take a quick step with the non pivot foot, kick and go. We don't balk them here (at least not with wnyone I have worked with) and I see no advantage for them nor disadvantage for the runner.

I guess someone would have to explain the disadvantage? Once they step with the non pivot they must go home...

[maven]

Originally Posted by egj13

I guess someone would have to explain the disadvantage? Once they step with the non pivot they must go home...

The advantage occurs with runners on. The position appears to be (and is in fact by rule) the set, which under FED rules permits F1 to step and throw to a base. That keeps the runner closer to the base.

When F1 is permitted to wind up from that position, he gets a better pitch out of it. That's the advantage.

If he's in the hybrid position and steps and throws to a base, will you balk him? He's legally in the set!

[egj13]

Originally Posted by maven

If he's in the hybrid position and steps and throws to a base, will you balk him? He's legally in the set!

Yes I balk him in that instance...If runners are on, I intrepret the hybrid as a set...if runners are not on I intrepret the hybrid as a windup.