Get it Right --- The 1st Time!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Is there any evidence that anyone saw something clearly different? If the backlash is from ignorance, then honestly who cares what folks had to say about that call.



This is probably true, but it has filtered down to levels that have none of this. We have two man systems where coaches ask help from a partner on a play where they have other responsibilities. That is the part where I have a problem with this. The MLB has 4 umpires and most of us will never work a game with that many on the field in our career even if it is by accident. And even when they do this, they get a lot of plays wrong. Or it is so inconclusive that was the change even worth it in the first place.

Peace

Easy solution. Say "No, that's my call and I've made it." The coach may not be happy, but who cares? Somebody's always going to be unhappy.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Give me a break here. It is so easy to watch a video and play God. Hell, we can be perfect almost, ALWAYS. U2 got blocked out. Not because he wasn't hustling but, because he got blocked out. What was he supposed to do, use his super-speed and go to 2BX and see the tag. Get real.

If you have never been blocked out, (this doesn't apply to Rut because he's perfect, always), then you don't do many games a year and you just aren't that good. So this doesn't apply to you. If you can't see the play do you call the runner out? No. Do you yell out "does anyone have a tag"? No. How about "Lets go to the video tape"? Hell no!

Whats your options after that besides thinking that the guys on the Officiating.com forum, aren't going to like this.

WHAT Are Your OPTIONS?

**iT Happens Gentlemen!

And if this is your Day job, chances are your going to see more **it then the professionals, on this forum.

Could have, Should have and Would have, aren't making the call for you here. So where does that leave you? Have a huddle? Call a friend? Eat the call?

I can't do that because the forum won't like it.

MLB pays these gentlemen to do what they want done, to get the call correct.

Discussions are good but, get over it, smell the coffee and see how you handle it in your next Pro game.

He got blocked out because he wasn't hustling.

[Dakota]

PMFBI, but this COULD be what happened, right?

• U2 was screened on the call and made the best call he could (safe).
• Manager goes out to talk with U2, suggests perhaps he was screened, and asks if he will check with the other members of the crew
• U2, knowing he WAS screened, does just that
• The umpires meet and determine that the runner was indeed out
• The correct call is then made

If this is what happened, why is this not what should have happened? (I mean other than U2 not getting screened in the first place). Isn't this when an umpire conference is appropriate?

[REFANDUMP]

Originally Posted by Dakota

PMFBI, but this COULD be what happened, right?

• U2 was screened on the call and made the best call he could (safe).
• Manager goes out to talk with U2, suggests perhaps he was screened, and asks if he will check with the other members of the crew
• U2, knowing he WAS screened, does just that
• The umpires meet and determine that the runner was indeed out
• The correct call is then made

If this is what happened, why is this not what should have happened? (I mean other than U2 not getting screened in the first place). Isn't this when an umpire conference is appropriate?

Bingo, we have a winner !!!

[ozzy6900]

Interesting how many of you totally lost the idea. I am using the video to show what not to do. I am not going to say if my MLB brother was incorrect in his mechanics, that's not my job. What I am saying here is at our level, we must move with the play to make this call. If this was done, the call would probably have been the correct one, the 1st time! I am trying to impress on us all, the need to be in position and make the correct call, the 1st time! And yes, I seriously think that amateur mechanics have slipped drasticaly since the era of "umpiring by board meeting".

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Interesting how many of you totally lost the idea. I am using the video to show what not to do. I am not going to say if my MLB brother was incorrect in his mechanics, that's not my job. What I am saying here is at our level, we must move with the play to make this call. If this was done, the call would probably have been the correct one, the 1st time! I am trying to impress on us all, the need to be in position and make the correct call, the 1st time! And yes, I seriously think that amateur mechanics have slipped drasticaly since the era of "umpiring by board meeting".

I do not think amateur alone, but pro. I think people umpire to with the expectation to be saved from making a mistake instead of hustling or using good mechanics to get the call right.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Easy solution. Say "No, that's my call and I've made it." The coach may not be happy, but who cares? Somebody's always going to be unhappy.

I do this all the time. It works for me, but unfortunately we deal with other umpires that insist that we must make them happy. Not sure where this came from or why we try to make someone happy. Coaches have an agenda and they will ask everyone if they think it will get a chance and do not realize that we are all not watching the same things. I have no problem with help on legitimate situations, especially with fewer umpires on the field and we are in really silly angles to make calls. But not on plays where we have only minimal responsibilities.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jicecone

I, can't understand why the almighty, ever-knowing, worlds best, all around AMATEUR OFFICIAL would take time from his throne to even participate with the peasants of officiating in discussion. Maybe you should just pontificate daily on the forum and we can all be blessed and gracious for your words of knowledge being bestowed upon us.

Besides you usual pompus Bullcrap, what are your options when all else goes bad, allmighty official? When you find yourself in that situation, (theoritically of course), what advise do you give to the rookie to rectify it? Take out your ipad and email Rut? 50,0000+ fans waiting for a call, **it happens and What is the almighty going to do??

If you don't like my opinon, go back to the Basketball Forum, I am sure they are all huddled around their computers waiting for you to honor them with your knowledge.

You have a lot of issues and you need to worry more about yourself. Then and maybe then you will understand the point of views on this site. If you do not like my opinions, you can block me or not read anything I have to say. I do not even know who you are or anything about you. I guess worrying about me makes you feel better. Oh well, have a great career.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

He got blocked out because he wasn't hustling.

Amen. He was using 1 man mechanics all of a sudden and staying between the play and the other base it might go back to. He forgot he had a partner at 3rd and let himself get blocked out.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Amen. He was using 1 man mechanics all of a sudden and staying between the play and the other base it might go back to. He forgot he had a partner at 3rd and let himself get blocked out.

Yep.

Peace

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You have a lot of issues and you need to worry more about yourself. Then and maybe then you will understand the point of views on this site. If you do not like my opinions, you can block me or not read anything I have to say. I do not even know who you are or anything about you. I guess worrying about me makes you feel better. Oh well, have a great career.

Peace

Ydgtlw.

Thank you CT1

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

This video is an argument I have with the new way of "board meeting umpiring".

MLB should simply adopt expanded replay and be done with it. It will not take any longer then the umpires huddling, changing the call , the other manager whom the call went against comes out and argues and finally the manager gets tossed.

We have replay in the other sports. It's time for MLB to stop the nonsense and go with expanded replay.

REAL ISSUE:

The professional sports hierachy does not care about the officials. Look what's happening in the NFL. They are set to start the season with replacement refs. All of this over a pension plan. The NFL has billions so this issue should not be a big deal. MLB is no different because they do not take an active role in umpire development. Also, in MLB once you get "there" you are there for life. Not much movement at the top.

I agree for amateur baseball. There is only 2 of us and we have to hustle and make the call. many times we cannot get help or huddle even if we wanted to because we know our partner was doing "other" things and cannot help out.

Pete Booth

[lawump]

Ozzy, if I understand your hypothesis, you are saying that too many amateur umpires need crew conferences during games because they are not using proper mechanics. If I understand your posts, you are saying that amateur umpires often don't use proper mechanics because of their belief that another umpire on the crew will "bail them out" of a knotty situation in a conference meeting. In otherwords, (if I understand you correctly) it is your belief that too many umpires are using crew huddles as a crutch in lieu of using proper mechanics to get the call right the first time. You state that we (senior amateur umpires) need to do a better job teaching newbies proper mechanics so that they get calls right the first time and thus eliminate the need for conferences. (Please correct me if I have incorrectly stated your hypothesis).

While I agree with this hypothesis to a certain degree, I also disagree to a point. I do not think that use of "proper mechanics" alone will cut down significantly on the number of umpire conferences occuring on the amateur level. I also think that there are a number of umpires who, simply put, officiate either scared or nervous. (To use Gorilla Monsoon language, "they lack intestinal fortitude.") These umpires are scared and, as a result, are too easily intimidated by coaches to call for a crew conference. Thus, they end up in conferences all the time. On the major league level (note I did not say "professional" level) you do not have this issue. Simply put, MLB crew conferences do not arise because of an umpire being scared and/or intimidated by a manager. They usually arise, as you showed in the link in the original post, as a result of a mechanic breakdown and an umpire on the crew believing that a call was missed as a result of that breakdown.

I have found as an evaluator in my umpire association (which has over 100 members) that the majority (but not all) crew conferences are not a result of poor mechanics but are the result of the calling umpire lacking confidence in himself (and his call) and being too easily persuaded by the complaining head coach to have a conference.

The simple solution to this problem would be to tell these umpires that they may need to find another hobby/profession. But, if we did that, we would not have enough umpires to umpire the games that are played in our area. Unfortunately, we are like the vast majority of the country in that we have an umpire shortage. Thus, we need all the "warm bodies" we can get. We train them very, very hard to install proper mechanics. But, will we can (and do) have a roster of umpires with very good mechanics, training an umpire to have "intestinal fortitude" is much harder. We can only work hard to install this confidence in these umpires so that they will improve in this area.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by lawump

Ozzy, if I understand your hypothesis, you are saying that too many amateur umpires need crew conferences during games because they are not using proper mechanics. If I understand your posts, you are saying that amateur umpires often don't use proper mechanics because of their belief that another umpire on the crew will "bail them out" of a knotty situation in a conference meeting. In otherwords, (if I understand you correctly) it is your belief that too many umpires are using crew huddles as a crutch in lieu of using proper mechanics to get the call right the first time. You state that we (senior amateur umpires) need to do a better job teaching newbies proper mechanics so that they get calls right the first time and thus eliminate the need for conferences. (Please correct me if I have incorrectly stated your hypothesis).

While I agree with this hypothesis to a certain degree, I also disagree to a point. I do not think that use of "proper mechanics" alone will cut down significantly on the number of umpire conferences occuring on the amateur level. I also think that there are a number of umpires who, simply put, officiate either scared or nervous. (To use Gorilla Monsoon language, "they lack intestinal fortitude.") These umpires are scared and, as a result, are too easily intimidated by coaches to call for a crew conference. Thus, they end up in conferences all the time. On the major league level (note I did not say "professional" level) you do not have this issue. Simply put, MLB crew conferences do not arise because of an umpire being scared and/or intimidated by a manager. They usually arise, as you showed in the link in the original post, as a result of a mechanic breakdown and an umpire on the crew believing that a call was missed as a result of that breakdown.

I have found as an evaluator in my umpire association (which has over 100 members) that the majority (but not all) crew conferences are not a result of poor mechanics but are the result of the calling umpire lacking confidence in himself (and his call) and being too easily pursuaded by the complaining head coach to have a conference.

The simple solution to this problem would be to tell these umpires that they may need to find another hobby/profession. But, if we did that, we would not have enough umpires to umpire the games that are played in our area. Unfortunately, we are like the vast majority of the country in that we have an umpire shortage. Thus, we need all the "warm bodies" we can get. We train them very, very hard to install proper mechanics. But, will we can (and do) have a roster of umpires with very good mechanics, training an umpire to have "intestinal fortitude" is much harder. We can only work hard to install this confidence in these umpires so that they will improve in this area.

You interpret my feelings exactly. I also evaluate for my organization and during the HS season, we don't seem to have that trouble. But during the Summer, youth and Legion ball seems to change a lot of people and I don't know why.

By the way, nice reference to Gorilla Monsoon. I remember that era very well. In those days, it was not uncommon to run into Haystacks Calhoon, Bobo Brazil, the Gorilla or any of the wrestlers as they lived in my town during the season. We are between NYC & Boston and in those days, a pretty cheap place to live.

[jicecone]

Wow Ozzy, thanks for bringing back memories. I met Bobo Brasil hanging out with Illio Dippallo in the 60's, in WNY. There is still a Dipallo's Resturant that his family runs.

The ole "CoCo Butt"!