Simple question, but can't find answer

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

1) you might be right on coach's interference -- I've only had it a couple of times, and time has been called at the end of the play to explain / reinforce the call. IT might not be by rule, but as a practical matter, I think it hapens.

2) If the catcher's throw doesn't retire the runner, time is called to enforce the umpire's interference.

Yep, you're right about the umpire's interference. I looked a little harder and found OBR 5.09(b):

The ball becomes dead and runners advance one base or return to their bases, without liability to be put out, when -
(b)The plate umpire interferes with the catcher's throw; runners may not advance;

NOTE: The interference shall be disregarded if the catcher's throw retires the runner.

I should have remembered because I've actually called it once, a very VERY long time ago. I was the PU with R2 stealing when I called out the batter on a K2. The catcher must have thought that was 3 outs so he flipped me the ball and without thinking I caught it. It all happened so quickly that he realised what he'd done and tried to retrieve the ball from my hand while I was standing there dumbfounded. When his subsequent throw failed to retire the runner and I recovered my sensibilities I called "Time" and sent the stealing runner back for umpire's interference. Of course I should have dropped the ball immediately or simply let it bounce back off me, but I guess it was just a reflex.

When I replied to your post I had looked up OBR 2.00 Interference (c) Umpire's Interference and didn't look any further. JEA says that when they changed the rule in 5.09(b) they didn't change OBR 2.00 to match. Guess that's how I got misled.

Cheers

[Bfair]

Originally posted by Warren Willson

I have also checked your reference to 3.15. Again, Intentional comes into play. Where does it say the kick was INTENTIONAL in the original post.

Maybe a better explaination of the play would help.

Mr Thumpferee, there are several points that I must make with no disrespect intended:

1. A "kick" of the ball by the coach or any other person entitled to be on the playing field is automatically considered intentional, as the two Bob's correctly responded above. That was why I quoted OBR 3.15 Comment and Play. 3.15 Comment says:
   If, however, the person kicks the ball or picks it up or pushes it, that is considered intentional interference, regardless of what the person's thought may have been.
   
   [/B][/QUOTE]
   
   From the JEA, rule 7.11:
   
   On unintentional interference by persons authorized to be on the field but not members of the offensive team, the ball shall remain alive and in play. On intentional interference by these employees, the ball is dead; and the umpire shall impose such penalties as will nullify the interference.
   
   A "kick" is penalized as intentional interference whether it actually was considered to be intentional or not. This applies to non-playing, authorized personnel only.
   
   
   
   Freix
   
   

[bluezebra]

1..Dead ball. BR safe at 1B.
2..If R3 scored before the interference, run counts. If not, return R3 to 3B.
3..Eject 1B coach for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Bob

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by bluezebra
1..Dead ball. BR safe at 1B.
2..If R3 scored before the interference, run counts. If not, return R3 to 3B.
3..Eject 1B coach for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Bob

The following interpretation of OBR 5.08 and the accompanying explanatory play from Evans' Official Baseball Rules Annotated would seem to disagree with your interpretation:

Though Rule 5.08 states a penalty in rather vague terms ...”the runner is out”... it becomes the umpire’s responsibility to determine which runner in the case of multiple runners. In the case of interference interpreted as intentional by the umpire, he shall rule the ball dead and call “out” the runner who would have most benefited by the coach’s actions. (See situations below.)

PLAY: Runner on 2nd. The batter’s ground ball is fielded to 1st but gets by the first baseman. The coach falls to the ground and covers the ball as the runner from 2nd scores and the BR advances to 2nd.

RULING: This is most likely intentional interference by the coach. The ball should be ruled dead, the lead runner declared out, and the BR returned to 1st.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

[chris s]

Originally posted by Warren Willson

The following interpretation of OBR 5.08 and the accompanying explanatory play from Evans' Official Baseball Rules Annotated would seem to disagree with your interpretation:

Though Rule 5.08 states a penalty in rather vague terms ...”the runner is out”... it becomes the umpire’s responsibility to determine which runner in the case of multiple runners. In the case of interference interpreted as intentional by the umpire, he shall rule the ball dead and call “out” the runner who would have most benefited by the coach’s actions. (See situations below.)

PLAY: Runner on 2nd. The batter’s ground ball is fielded to 1st but gets by the first baseman. The coach falls to the ground and covers the ball as the runner from 2nd scores and the BR advances to 2nd.

RULING: This is most likely intentional interference by the coach. The ball should be ruled dead, the lead runner declared out, and the BR returned to 1st.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~
You are dead to rights on this...just wanted to say HELLO! Glad to see ya back, keep these kids inline, huh....

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by chris s

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~
You are dead to rights on this...just wanted to say HELLO! Glad to see ya back, keep these kids inline, huh....

Hey to you too, Chris. *grin* Glad to be back. I've seen you punching in at several of the old haunts lately, and wondered how long it might be before we'd exchange greetings.

If I'm "dead to rights on this" one now, I sure wasn't a couple of days ago. I had to post the above citation further up the thread as a personal correction to my own original understanding. Maybe the "kids" should be keeping ME in line, huh? *BIG grin*

Cheers

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by Bfair
From the JEA, rule 7.11:

On unintentional interference by persons authorized to be on the field but not members of the offensive team, the ball shall remain alive and in play. On intentional interference by these employees, the ball is dead; and the umpire shall impose such penalties as will nullify the interference.

A "kick" is penalized as intentional interference whether it actually was considered to be intentional or not. This applies to non-playing, authorized personnel only.

Freix

I would consider base coaches as "non-playing, authorized personnel..". I don't think the intention of that note, placed as it was under OBR 7.11, was merely trying to draw a distinction with personnel covered directly under OBR 3.15 such as cameramen, police, ball boys, etc. Rather I think it was meant to distinguish base coaches et al from players, who might otherwise be covered in the provisions of OBR 7.09 and elsewhere.

As you are often wont to say, Just My Opinion.