I have watched it numerous times on 24" monitor and I never can pick out the ball in his hand at the time of the tag. Later on in the video he does have the ball in his right hand when he is yelling at the umps and it is clearly visible then, but not when he tags the batter.

You can't always see that. Swinging takes your head around away from the catch. By the time you look back, having it in the glove doesn't guarantee anything. If it's rolling around, of course you know, but not when it's in the glove.

And it doesn't matter whether F2 makes the catch, it matters whether PU rules that he did!

I just watched it on a 24" monitor and you can see the ball when the catcher wheels around toward the PU right after he tags the batter. I would screen shot it but that video downsizes as soon as you pause it, so I'm not sure how to do it.

Here is a screen capture of just that portion of the video. Cant do it on youtube, but on one of my video programs I was able to move it frame by frame. I still cannont make out the ball in the hand at the time of the tag, but as you said when catcher wheels around there is a very brief moment where it does look like there may be a ball in the hand.

Recording_2012618182329.wmv - YouTube

Sorry but if I'm PU there is no appeal. Simple - tell the coach "he swung", F2 tagged him. Game over.

Don't know why all the conference was going on, obviously the PU didn't stay with his call - not good umpiring.

Thanks
David

OK, I did so. I see no ball in the catcher's hand.

Verbalizing "no catch" after the point & "he went" is the accepted mechanic in these parts. The batter should be able to hear that.

I'd really like to know why this was overturned. If I were the defensive coach, I'd been on my way to the bus after that.

The issue that caused the drama dealt with whether or not there was a tag.

With the benefit of the video, there's no question that there WAS a tag BUT the umpires didn't have the luxury of the video.

After the conference the umpires determined that no umpire called the batter/runner out on a tag, the batter runner reached 1b, so they placed him at 1b.

That's the scoop folks.

Once you determine the pitch was not caught, which he knew it wasn't, all you have to worry about is tag/no tag. I don't see how you could not have a tag here, especially since after the catcher tagged him he took off running to his teammates. Also, what did the PU signal after the catcher turned around and looked at him? After the tag, the catcher started to point at first base, then starts celebrating. It looks like the PU may have given an out mechanic.

The ball was in the catcher's hand. If you pause it at about the 8 second mark you can see white inside his hand. Also, you can tell he is pulling the ball out of his mitt after he blocks the pitch.

Edit: How did neither BU see the catcher tag the batter? U1 has nothing else going on here. When they got together, he should have stepped up and told the PU there was a tag.

Not sure but that's what went down. Those are the facts of the situation.

With the benefit of the video, it is obvious that there was a tag. But according to my sources there was never an official "out" mechanic. As for what the base umpires were doing or watching...I can't speak for that, but I can tell you that they didn't see a tag for 100% or they would've called him out.

Once again we get ourselves into hot water because of poor mechanics.

When F2 attempted a tag, if PU didn't see a tag he should have signalled and verbalized "No tag!" This would have let everyone know what the status of the BR was.

No matter how you spin this, it was a cluster. These are clearly some good umpires that got into a very unpleasant situation, one that I am sure we wouldn't wish on anyone. Given that there were no ejections, protests, riots or civil unrest, I would say everyone got out alive.

For one, I am convinced that our mechanics will make or break us, as I believe the judgment was sound on this play. The way the judgement was delivered caused the problems we all have seen.

I think your post is a great way to sum this up.

Like I said earlier, the "no catch" mechanic wasn't necessary. The PU got too mechanic happy.

One time on a close play at the plate, I gave a, "Safe, balls on the ground!" mechanic when the catcher didn't quite control the throw. The defensive coach asked me, "Would he have been out if he held on to the ball?" I thought for a second, said, "Probably not, I was just letting everyone know there wasn't a controlled ball."

It made me ponder, why give something if it's not really necessary. That's why I will never use a "that's nothing" signal (?) if I have nothing to call.

Like I said earlier, overkill on the mechanics.

For the sake of discussion is it possible that you simply incorrectly used a good mechanic?