Umpires accosted off the field following Midwest Collegiate League Game

[JRutledge]

Sounds like fun. Why guys still work these leagues is beyond me, but to each his own I guess.

My only real concern is why did you post this with actual names of all the parties (more the umpires IMO) involved? I know both of you and both of your are good umpires, but this only just puts light on people that may not participate in this forum and cannot give their side or perspective. Now everyone in the country (world) knows about this incident in a league that many experienced umpires totally dismiss for all kinds of reasons. Do not take this the wrong way, I am not talking about a lack of professionalism, I just would not have posted this with the names, but certainly would have said posted the incident and the circumstances. Maybe if this made the paper that is one thing, but totally different when no one even knows who is playing in these league or cares for the most part.

That is just my take on this issue.

Peace

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Sounds like fun. Why guys still work these leagues is beyond me, but to each his own I guess.

My only real concern is why did you post this with actual names of all the parties (more the umpires IMO) involved? I know both of you and both of your are good umpires, but this only just puts light on people that may not participate in this forum and cannot give their side or perspective. Now everyone in the country (world) knows about this incident in a league that many experienced umpires totally dismiss for all kinds of reasons. Do not take this the wrong way, I am not talking about a lack of professionalism, I just would not have posted this with the names, but certainly would have said posted the incident and the circumstances. Maybe if this made the paper that is one thing, but totally different when no one even knows who is playing in these league or cares for the most part.

That is just my take on this issue.

Peace

I can understand what you're saying, which is why I've tried to maintain some fairness or decorum by not stating a name and ripping any named individuals here. As far as Vern, he has been in the news and is quite publicly known, and not in a good way unfortunately.

FWIW, he's also the author of 2 baseball books, the second of which is scheduled to be published in September.

As far as why guys work these leagues--we do so for several reasons. I enjoy college baseball. I work multiple summer college leagues, including the Prospect League, the CSBL, Wisconsin State League, and the aforementioned Midwest Collegiate League. In addition, I have assigned the Metropolitan Collegiate Summer Baseball League since 1995. Unlike some other leagues, these utilize 2 umpires per game, and they pay rather well. The quality of ball in some of them is very good (Prospect League and Metro Collegiate League have been the best in that regard).

If one is going to work summer college ball, these are the ones available.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by UMP25

I can understand what you're saying, which is why I've tried to maintain some fairness or decorum by not stating a name and ripping any named individuals here. As far as Vern, he has been in the news and is quite publicly known, and not in a good way unfortunately.

FWIW, he's also the author of 2 baseball books, the second of which is scheduled to be published in September.

I am only talking about the incident being in the news. I have no problem with you even showing us the report, but with the names that is where I have a slight issue on that level. I am not totally against posting something about this, just saying that the names involved are what I am concerned about. And I am thinking of this from the standpoint of your partner who I know personally as well, if he would be OK with this discussion with his name involved.

Originally Posted by UMP25

As far as why guys work these leagues--we do so for several reasons. I enjoy college baseball. I work multiple summer college leagues, including the Prospect League, the CSBL, Wisconsin State League, and the aforementioned Midwest Collegiate League. In addition, I have assigned the Metropolitan Collegiate Summer Baseball League since 1995. Unlike some other leagues, these utilize 2 umpires per game, and they pay rather well. The quality of ball in some of them is very good (Prospect League and Metro Collegiate League have been the best in that regard).

If one is going to work summer college ball, these are the ones available.

I am mostly speaking personally. I know why people like you and others do these leagues. This is your main sport and a way for you to get better and see some decent talent. I do get that. It just sounds like such a headache to deal with clowns like this have no perspective on why we are playing these games in the first place. Then again I did a handful of these games several years ago and I felt more like jumping off a cliff than working these games for the crap you take.

Peace

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am only talking about the incident being in the news. I have no problem with you even showing us the report, but with the names that is where I have a slight issue on that level. I am not totally against posting something about this, just saying that the names involved are what I am concerned about. And I am thinking of this from the standpoint of your partner who I know personally as well, if he would be OK with this discussion with his name involved.

I mentioned to my partner that I was discussing this on this forum but left his last name out of the posts here, just as I did mine. Sure, they're on the report, but I just left them out of the forum posts.

I am mostly speaking personally. I know why people like you and others do these leagues. This is your main sport and a way for you to get better and see some decent talent. I do get that. It just sounds like such a headache to deal with clowns like this have no perspective on why we are playing these games in the first place. Then again I did a handful of these games several years ago and I felt more like jumping off a cliff than working these games for the crap you take.

Peace

This incident is a rarity. In all the years I've worked summer collegiate leagues, I can count on one hand the number of major problems I've experienced. Now the quality of the ball--that's a different story. It's also the reason why I don't do many CSBL games anymore. That league isn't what it used to be--lots of "old" guys on the rosters, and that lowers the quality significantly. I just help out its assignor with games in that league before my main summer collegiate leagues start.

[LilLeaguer]

JRutledge has a point, so I've redacted the names from the portion of the report I quoted earlier.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by UMP25

I can understand what you're saying, which is why I've tried to maintain some fairness or decorum by not stating a name and ripping any named individuals here. As far as Vern, he has been in the news and is quite publicly known, and not in a good way unfortunately.

FWIW, he's also the author of 2 baseball books, the second of which is scheduled to be published in September.

I've received three e-mails from 4 assigners covering 3 sports advising us that if we puiblish an ejection report in a forum such as this or any public venue, we're done.... for good.

Whether the coach seems to have a history or is publishing a book is irrelevant. I any part of the allegation is proven untrue, the publisher of the information has "lots of 'splainin' to do !! Probably to legal counsel of the accused.

Let the league handle this. Word will get out as to what happened.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by asdf

I've received three e-mails from 4 assigners covering 3 sports advising us that if we puiblish an ejection report in a forum such as this or any public venue, we're done.... for good.

Whether the coach seems to have a history or is publishing a book is irrelevant. if any part of the allegation is proven untrue, the publisher of the information has "lots of 'splainin' to do !! Probably to legal counsel of the accused.

iLet the league handle this. Word will get out as to what happened.

I would not let the league handle this -- I would've called the police while on site. However, I wouldn't have posted the ejection report, either, just like I wouldn't have posted the arrest report or the coach's mugshots (if available).

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

I wouldn't have posted the arrest report or the coach's mugshots (if available).

The media will do that.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

I would not let the league handle this

I certainly hope you are refering to only the personnal attack and not anything else.

You have a useless case if you don't follow the procedures alloted in the League. This is the same problem that law enforcement has every day and then some. Having the paperwork in proper order enables the League to penalize accordingly.

UMP25 - I realize that one feels violated after an incident like this however, publiclly posting only your side of the story with specific details can get you into more problems than you think. I am not saying what you reported is wrong, I am saying that when a League investigates the incident they will take into account statements from both sides, before making a decision. Be careful.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by jicecone

I certainly hope you are refering to only the personnal attack and not anything else.

You have a useless case if you don't follow the procedures alloted in the League. This is the same problem that law enforcement has every day and then some. Having the paperwork in proper order enables the League to penalize accordingly.

UMP25 - I realize that one feels violated after an incident like this however, publiclly posting only your side of the story with specific details can get you into more problems than you think. I am not saying what you reported is wrong, I am saying that when a League investigates the incident they will take into account statements from both sides, before making a decision. Be careful.

FWIW, some redactions made.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

I would not let the league handle this -- I would've called the police while on site. However, I wouldn't have posted the ejection report, either, just like I wouldn't have posted the arrest report or the coach's mugshots (if available).

Are you merely saying you wouldn't have posted the ej report HERE? Or are you saying you wouldn't fill one out at all?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Are you merely saying you wouldn't have posted the ej report HERE? Or are you saying you wouldn't fill one out at all?

I'm saying I'd call the police on *top* of doing the required paperwork. If the league said "don't call the police" I would ignore that.

I would keep a close eye on what the league did, though -- if there's a pattern of this behavior and coaches not getting suspended, I'd probably quit working the league.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

I'm saying I'd call the police on *top* of doing the required paperwork. If the league said "don't call the police" I would ignore that.

Ah. Got it. And I agree.

I would keep a close eye on what the league did, though -- if there's a pattern of this behavior and coaches not getting suspended, I'd probably quit working the league.

Absolutely.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

I would not let the league handle this -- I would've called the police while on site. However, I wouldn't have posted the ejection report, either, just like I wouldn't have posted the arrest report or the coach's mugshots (if available).

100% agree that the police should have been called.

100% believe that the report should not have been posted.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by SafeOutReplay

Money. Independent wealth is unusual in officiating. Most do it for the money even if they lie continually claiming that they don't.

Sounds like that's not viable any longer.