Tie goes to the .... ?

[whitecane12]

As an active umpire at the Little League thru Big League levels and a clinic instructor I hear a lot of players, coaches and parents who think they know the rule. It wasn't until I became an umpire, attended a school in southern California and got a couple hundred games under my belt that I realized how much I never knew.

Probably one of the most common misconceptions regarding the rules is one I hear very frequently. "Tie goes to the runner!"

In the umpire school we were told there is never a tie nor a close pitch. Its either a ball or a strike or the runner is safe or out.

But, my favorite way to respond to someone who says that to me is to let them figure out the answer for himself or herself. I point out that the rules dictate that in order for a runner to be safe the runner must beat the throw, or in other words touch the base before fielder touches the base with possession of the ball or tags the runner.

I then ask my new-found "rules expert" if a tie qualifies as beating the throw. They know the answer is "NO". I smile and say, "Then I guess tie doesn't go to the runner afterall."

Tie goes to the defense...always!

[David B]

Tie goes to the defense...always!

and then you say

In the umpire school we were told there is never a tie nor a close pitch


So which is it??

Or is there such a thing as a tie?

Just wonderin

Thanks
David

[ozzy6900]

Tie goes to the umpire - OUT!
Close pitch goes to the umpire - STRIKE!
Questions wait until after the game!

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by whitecane12
But, my favorite way to respond to someone who says that to me is to let them figure out the answer for himself or herself. I point out that the rules dictate that in order for a runner to be safe the runner must beat the throw, or in other words touch the base before fielder touches the base with possession of the ball or tags the runner.

One rule (7.08e) says that; the other (6.05j) says that to be out the ball must beat the runner.

Tie goes to the defense...always!

By rule, the tie goes to the runner at first; the tie goes to the defense at other bases.

[whitecane12]

Originally posted by David B
Tie goes to the defense...always!

and then you say

In the umpire school we were told there is never a tie nor a close pitch


So which is it??

Or is there such a thing as a tie?

Just wonderin

Thanks
David

What I'm saying is the school says there is never a tie meaning we as umpires have to decide one way or the other. We would never say, "It's a tie. The runner is out!" The runner either did or did not beat the throw. But, in a purely off-the-field philosophical discussion with coaches, parents, etc., were I to concede that a tie could actually occur then I simply tell them the runner is out since he didn't beat the throw. That always ends the discussion since no one has ever pointed out to them the runner must beat the throw to be safe. By the time they recover from that enough to respond I'm out of there!

[whitecane12]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

One rule (7.08e) says that; the other (6.05j) says that to be out the ball must beat the runner.

By rule, the tie goes to the runner at first; the tie goes to the defense at other bases.

Primarily my umpiring is within the rules of Little League baseball rules. As many times as I've read the rule book I've never seen that rule. But, I love learning things I didn't know before. Could you please refer to book, chapter and verse that validates your statement? In either case I maintain there is no tie....ever. Either the runner got there first or the ball did. I won't discuss the possibility of a tie and its consequences during a game with anyone. Afterwards, oh yeah...I love rules disussions and those in the leagues I umpire in know I'm approachable for that reason.

[Rich Ives]

S Bob said in his post, and you re-quoted, the rules are:

One rule (7.08e) says that; the other (6.05j) says that to be out the ball must beat the runner.

Read them closely and you will see what he means.

[whitecane12]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
S Bob said in his post, and you re-quoted, the rules are:

One rule (7.08e) says that; the other (6.05j) says that to be out the ball must beat the runner.

Read them closely and you will see what he means.

Obviously those rules being quoted aren't the Little League rules which is what I and the coaches in the league I umpire in must go by. What rule book are those rules from?

[soonerfan]

dude, you just said that a "tie" does not exist in the rules. which is it?

i'm only kidding, i undestand what you're saying and it is accurate and is a good way of putting it.

[Rich Ives]

Whitscane12 says: "Obviously those rules being quoted aren't the Little League rules which is what I and the coaches in the league I umpire in must go by. What rule book are those rules from?"

LL uses OBR with some minor modifications. The rules referenced are OBR, which in this case are worded slightly differently than LL but have the same meaning.

OBR 7.08 Any runner is out when_ e) He fails to reach the next base before a fielder tags him or the base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

LL 7.08 Any runner is out when - e) failing to reach the next base before a fielder tags said runner or the base after that runner has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

AND - in 6.05 LL combines OBR 6.05 b & c into one rule, resulting in being "off" by one letter but the wording is again virtually the same.

OBR 6.05 A batter is out when_ j) After a third strike or after he hits a fair ball, he or first base is tagged before he touches first base;

LL A batter is out when - i) after hitting a fair ball, the batter-runner or first base is tagged before said batter-runner touches first base; or Junior/Senior/Big League, after a third strike as defined in Rule 6.09(b) the batter-runner or first base is tagged before said batter-runner touches first base;

[GarthB]

As taught by both pro schools, there is no tie. Make a decision.

Thank you.

[whitecane12]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
Whitscane12 says: "Obviously those rules being quoted aren't the Little League rules which is what I and the coaches in the league I umpire in must go by. What rule book are those rules from?"

LL uses OBR with some minor modifications. The rules referenced are OBR, which in this case are worded slightly differently than LL but have the same meaning.

OBR 7.08 Any runner is out when_ e) He fails to reach the next base before a fielder tags him or the base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

LL 7.08 Any runner is out when - e) failing to reach the next base before a fielder tags said runner or the base after that runner has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

AND - in 6.05 LL combines OBR 6.05 b & c into one rule, resulting in being "off" by one letter but the wording is again virtually the same.

OBR 6.05 A batter is out when_ j) After a third strike or after he hits a fair ball, he or first base is tagged before he touches first base;

LL A batter is out when - i) after hitting a fair ball, the batter-runner or first base is tagged before said batter-runner touches first base; or Junior/Senior/Big League, after a third strike as defined in Rule 6.09(b) the batter-runner or first base is tagged before said batter-runner touches first base;

Thanks, Rich. That was very helpful. I appreciate your insight.

[tiger49]

Remember the mechanics we go through for a force out. Watch the feet at the bag and listen for the glove. So if the ball and the runner arrive at the same time we see the foot on the base before we hear the glove. Therefore Safe! Likewise when we see the foot when we hear the glove we call out as light travels faster than sound, therefore glove happened first.

[bluezebra]

"Tie goes to the .... ?"

Dad on Father's Day, birthdays.

Bob

[Lonewolf986]

Originally posted by GarthB
As taught by both pro schools, there is no tie. Make a decision.

Thank you.

AGREED!

Baseball is black and white, Umpires are the judge, pass a verdict, get on with the game!

Theres NO SUCH THING AS A TIE!