Hbp

[bigjohn]

Is there a question here?

Was this ump correct? The ump CYA's by saying the rule changed. Many umps wouldn't call it anything but HBP even before the language change.

If the kid makes no attempt to get out the way, he is letting it hit him. Although the verbaige changed the spirit of the rule is that you have to make an attempt to avoid being HBP.

True?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Was this ump correct? The ump CYA's by saying the rule changed. Many umps wouldn't call it anything but HBP even before the language change.

If the kid makes no attempt to get out the way, he is letting it hit him. Although the verbaige changed the spirit of the rule is that you have to make an attempt to avoid being HBP.

True?

This part is incorrect and causes confusion. The rule requires umpire judgment: did the player intentionally permit the pitch to hit him?

Some pitches give a batter time to get out of the way. But sometimes a batter freezes and doesn't know which way to move. If I judge that the batter deliberately allowed the pitch to hit him -- or even moved into it -- I'll keep him in the box. Otherwise, HBP.

If a coach complains, I'll tell him: if you don't want him to get 1B, don't pitch in the batter's box.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mbyron

This part is incorrect and causes confusion. The rule requires umpire judgment: did the player intentionally permit the pitch to hit him?

Some pitches give a batter time to get out of the way. But sometimes a batter freezes and doesn't know which way to move. If I judge that the batter deliberately allowed the pitch to hit him -- or even moved into it -- I'll keep him in the box. Otherwise, HBP.

If a coach complains, I'll tell him: if you don't want him to get 1B, don't pitch in the batter's box.

Exactly. The onus is on the pitcher to not hit the batter. If the batter could reasonably be expected to move to avoid being hit or deliberately moves to be hit, that's one thing, but who put the ball into the batter's box in the first place?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

if the pitch is so slow that any player at that age should reasonably be expected to get out of it's way - i don't award.

If the batter turns into the pitch or sticks out an elbow or knee - i don't award.

In just about every other case - give them the base.

+1

Originally Posted by mbyron

this part is incorrect and causes confusion. The rule requires umpire judgment: Did the player intentionally permit the pitch to hit him?

Some pitches give a batter time to get out of the way. But sometimes a batter freezes and doesn't know which way to move. If i judge that the batter deliberately allowed the pitch to hit him -- or even moved into it -- i'll keep him in the box. Otherwise, hbp.

If a coach complains, i'll tell him: If you don't want him to get 1b, don't pitch in the batter's box.

+2

[bigjohn]

The umpire in the op said the rule changed. Like he would have kept him at the plate under the 'old' rule.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Was this ump correct? The ump CYA's by saying the rule changed. Many umps wouldn't call it anything but HBP even before the language change.

If the kid makes no attempt to get out the way, he is letting it hit him. Although the verbaige changed the spirit of the rule is that you have to make an attempt to avoid being HBP.

True?

Close to true. Not sure it's CYA as the verbiage of the rule really did change. I wouldn't extend the verbiage of the rule to include that you "have to make an attempt to avoid" - in fact, it's pretty much exactly that which led to the rules change.

Consider the very young hitter that freezes in panic - that hitter did not "make an attempt to avoid" as the old rule stated - but the spirit of the rule is to award this hitter first base, and the new verbiage matches that.

Consider the pitch that bounces funny and hits the batter - again, no attempt to avoid - but the spirit of the rule (and now the verbiage) gives that batter first base as well.

I think the new verbiage more perfectly aligns with the true spirit of the rule.

Regarding the OP - neither new nor old verbiage (nor spirit) should give the player that leans into the pitch a base.

[bigjohn]

The committee is concerned that batters are still attempting to be hit by pitches and earn an undeserved awarded base by ""taking one for the team."" Rule 7-3-4 clearly prohibits a batter allowing himself to be hit by a pitch.

I don't see anything in this interpretation about the pitch being in the batter's box or out of the batter's box!

[jicecone]

The committee is concerned that batters are still attempting to be hit by pitches and earn an undeserved awarded base by ""taking one for the team."" Rule 7-3-4 clearly prohibits a batter allowing himself to be hit by a pitch.

As an experienced official I read that as a "batter attempting to be hit" to be a batter moving into a pitch. Which I have seen 3 times this year and called.
It just not as black and white as it reads and general thought is don't rule in favor of the defense (pitcher) when they don't follow the rules.

And last time I looked the pitcher is not allowed to hit the batter with a pitch. Was it intentional? You don't always know.

So who is more right here for being wrong?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

The committee is concerned that batters are still attempting to be hit by pitches and earn an undeserved awarded base by ""taking one for the team."" Rule 7-3-4 clearly prohibits a batter allowing himself to be hit by a pitch.

I don't see anything in this interpretation about the pitch being in the batter's box or out of the batter's box!

That's not an interpretation, it's a statement of concern. And you clearly don't understand the last sentence in it, which is what I explained to you.

[bigjohn]

Batter "permits" pitch to hit him - Umpire-Empire

[Welpe]

Nobody calls illegal helmet contact either.

[ozzy6900]

"Hey coach, does the pitch belong in the batter's box?"

NCAA has the best idea. If the batter is completely within the box and the pitch enters the box, there is no question, nor does said batter have to move. HBP

[APG]

Originally Posted by welpe

nobody calls illegal helmet contact either.

So true lol...

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Batter "permits" pitch to hit him - Umpire-Empire

I think we ought to throw a flag for butt-blocking and be done with it.

[StlCards]

or aiding the runner...