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Tue Jun 24, 2003, 03:34pm
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Position B?
I'm surprized no one else said it....
WIth runners on 1st and 3rd what are you doing in position B? Position C is the correct mechanic.... of course that is beside the point of asking for help from your partner... Then again, if you were closer to 3rd (in position C) you likely could have sold the call better and not been questioned. 
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"There are no superstar calls. We don't root for certain teams. We don't cheat. But sometimes we just miss calls." - Joe Crawford 
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Tue Jun 24, 2003, 04:01pm
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WIth runners on 1st and 3rd what are you doing in position B? Position C is the correct mechanic....
Really? From the Manual for the Two-Umpire System, published by Umpire Development Program: Section 7 "Runners on First and Third" 7.1 Positioning "With runners on 1st and 3rd, the base umpire will position himself in exactly the same manner as with a runner on 1st base only. (see Section 3.1)" Of course, Section 3.1 does an excellent job of defining position "B".
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GB
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Tue Jun 24, 2003, 04:56pm
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Quote:
 mick
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Wed Jun 25, 2003, 08:34am
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Who's calling the game??
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Not in my world. I'm the umpire, me and my partner are calling the game. If I have a question about the call, then I will ask. The only time I would listen to a coach is on a checked swing, but then I would have already asked anyway since if I have a question, I ask. Don't let the coach umpire the game. Thanks David
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Wed Jun 25, 2003, 08:54am
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Depnds
Positioning with R1/R3 depends on whose mechanics system you follw. FED uses C, the UDP uses B.
I use B. More things can happen over on the right side of the infield. The only benefit to C is that you can keep up the misguided myth that the runner on third is SO important that you should say close to him (corollary myth: in three man there should always be an umpire ahead of the lead runner). Rich
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Wed Jun 25, 2003, 10:57am
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I guess it changed in 2000 since my 2001 manual says "B" . .
My 90's something manual also says "B". R3 alone? This summer if I'm on the grass I'm either in A or D (insert REAL big grin).
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GB
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Thu Jun 26, 2003, 12:48pm
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Just another opinion and question
O) I would not go to my partner after I made a call. I would go to him before I made the call. Just like play at 1st, bad throw and I am in B or C and it's a swipe tag or foot off the base. Ask for help - Did you see a tag, if dish say yes, bang him out. Do not call out and then ask for help. You be better off calling the wrong thing, because the next thing you'll be doing is ejecting a coach. Q) Why weren't you in the C slot ??? you mentioned runners on 1st and 3rd and you were in the B slot. Is this a new mechanic. I've seen some guys doing this lately. I have always been taught, if there is any runner on 2nd or 3rd, always be in C. That runner is the most important as they are closest to scoring.
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(DrC)
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Thu Jun 26, 2003, 12:56pm
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To DrC,
Re: O: I think you have to make a call before going to your partner. Easier to fix a wrong call than to have a myriad of things going on in a "continuation" situation that in and of themselves could create any number of bad scenarios with no call. Re: Q: See previous replies about B vs. C, including mine.
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BoB
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Thu Jun 26, 2003, 01:02pm
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Sorry - I missed the few posts that went about B vs C
I have to diagree with you about the no call vs immediate call. I am not talking about calling time, walkig to my partner and having a discussion. I'm talking about the same quick mechanic like "DID HE GO", I'M AT 3RD, or I'M GOING OUT"..... Something like, "Chris Do u have a tag.." Can be done quick and to the point. All I'm trying to say is you may loose some integrity if you question yourself. That could be a killer earlier in the game, or God forbid early in the 1st game of a Doubleheader.
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(DrC)
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Thu Jun 26, 2003, 01:12pm
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I understand what you're saying, however, it is quite possible that your partner wouldn't (maybe even shouldn't) be watching the play in question. Therefore, if so, his response to "do you have a tag" or similar could only be "no" or " i didn't see it", so you remain stuck with what you originally might have called, only to do it later after much else may have happened. I say make the call, wait for a manager to ask you if you want to ask your partner for help. If you're confident, don't ask, explain what you saw. If not, call time and discuss it privately - that way you don't create the awkward situation of forcing your partner to react to something he may have no clue about. If he did see something different, then you can change it.
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BoB
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Thu Jun 26, 2003, 02:55pm
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I personally think it puts your partner in more of an akward situation if you wait until after the coach is complaining.
For example: Last night I'm PU and my BU has a horrible angle on a play at third and pumps the kid out at third. Coach goes nuts cuase he is right over the play and knows his kid is safe. So after a while a parent yells ask for help and my BU immeadiately points at me...I give the kid safe because it is pretty obvious from my angle(however I almost just said I had a screened view just so that it didn't look like the coach had gotten to me with his whining). Satisfies one coach and the other goes nuts saying I'm too far away. This all could have been avoided if BU simply said "Did he make it to the bag in time?" I make the call it is the only call and they can't argue this 50/50 BS. I as PU prefer the asking me before you get into all sorts of trouble. That'll be one of the things I discuss with my new partners from here on out. However I would also reccomend you are pretty sure your partner had a good view...and if you aren't positive make sure it is a private conversation. [Edited by CDcoach on Jun 26th, 2003 at 02:57 PM]
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Thu Jun 26, 2003, 07:10pm
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don't ask me then!!!
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That's scary. Don't even think about asking me for help if you want me to agree with you. Then simply make the call on your own, which you should have done to start with (with a few exceptions) If we have a question, we will get together, discuss it and then if you have the call, you will make the final decision and then tell the coach. I will let the other team know and we play ball. Thanks David
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