All Stars: Extension for coach's sons?

[Basebal1187]

Jerry, I hope I didn't critize you, I was just trying to express my point of view, which happens to contradict with yours, quite obviously.

[whitecane12]

It defeats the whole purpose of "All-Stars" if you don't have a process that allows for selection of the best players in the league no matter what their relationship is to the coach or officials in the league. To suggest that no matter what you would put your kids on the team clearly says your priorities are not the good of the league but rather are self-serving and very irresponsible as a parent. I say this because if your kids haven't earned a spot on the team and dad gets them on it, they haven't learned anything of value about life. So, dad, are you going to make sure they get hired at whatever job they want? What about upper education? If you are a loving parent you sometimes have to teach your kids with "tough love" and let them learn that respect among their peers isn't achieved by anything daddy does for them...it's done based on what they have earned. So let them "fail" or "succeed" on their own sometimes. Guide them, encourage them but teach them that they must earn their position in sports and life.

With that said, our league uses a point system and all kids who attended try-outs prior to the start of the season are eligible for All-Stars. The All-Star manager, his two coaches and another league official (usually the vice-president of lower division baseball or upper division depending on what level the All-Star team is we are talking about) conduct a week-long clinic consisting of a couple hours a night of basic baseball drills and practice game situations. They are scored on fielding skills, batting skills, running speed, attitude, sportsmanship, etc.

When the week is over the evaluators compare notes and the top 14 scores are chosen. In one such Clinic this year, the coach's son didn't make it and neither did my son. Even though I umpired over 80 games in all divisions I couldn't influence the selection of my son, who didn't deserve to be on the team this year. When selection was over my son, who was a little disappointed not to be selected, came home and started practicing harder so he could make the team next year.

Through seeing that dad won't help him get what he hasn't earned and having dad call him out on strikes a few times or out on close plays, he's learned that he must earn his achievements rather than think or expect Dad to get him something he hasn't earned.

Much of this attitude has to do with parents. We, as parents, must try not to live vicariously through our children and let them know that we love and support them and are proud of them regardless of the degree of success they show in sports.

[wmandino]

I also am involved in Dixie Youth baseball (coaching and umpiring). We have the same problem as it seems everyone else has. Daddys coaching teams and campaigning for his son to make the all-stars. We have had fist fights and friendships broken over the selections. We went to our Recreation Director with an idea of selecting all-strs on all levels. Designate a 10 member commitee, make sure they have no relationship with any of the boys or the coaches. Keep the commitee private and let them make the selections at the end of the year all-star meeting. The decisions will unbiased and fair.

[just another ref]

Originally posted by wmandino
Designate a 10 member commitee, make sure they have no relationship with any of the boys or the coaches. Keep the commitee private and let them make the selections at the end of the year all-star meeting. The decisions will unbiased and fair.

How would you possibly find 10 people (or half that) that have no relation to the boys or coaches that would watch enough games, pay enough attention, and remember enough when it was all over to select all stars?
I watch every game, know every player, and have a book with my games in it to refer back to, and it is still difficult to make the decision of who to vote for sometimes.

[whitecane12]

Originally posted by wmandino
... Designate a 10 member commitee, make sure they have no relationship with any of the boys or the coaches...

Great idea...too bad its only a dream! Our league was divided a few years ago into North and South with about 750 kids in each one. Between our two leagues I don't think there are 5 adults who don't have a personal connection to one or more players in the league.

The idea I suggested earlier actually works if each member keeps a seperate score sheet and then notes are compared at the end of the weeklong "clinic". Amazingly the evaluators who did the scoring all had the same 12 names common to their list and differed on only two players. Each picked one of the two they chose not on the other list and the Board approved the team. As I said the coache's son didn't make it on the team and a few Board members' didn't have their child on the team. But, we did end up with a very good team this year. Time will tell if this works consistently.

[Jerry]

We had one league consisting of various age level divisions. Each division had an "All Star" game, complete with commemorative T-shirts and a miniature trophy. EVERY player in the league (who was available for the game)was named to an All Star team; each team being comprised of players from all regular season teams.

They used a continuous batting order, with every player batting. Each player was announced beforehand, stating his name and his team affiliation. No pitcher could pitch more than one inning. No team could score more than 5-runs an inning (at all age levels) and except for that rule and to track outs per inning, each game consisted of a full 7-innings. Coaches were prohibited from having their own kids on their team.

Talk about cameras! No pressure; no arguments; just a bunch of proud parents, coaches and kids.

Tournament teams however!!!! My Lord what a fiasco!

[mick]

Originally posted by Jerry
Let me guess. You weren't named to the All Star team, were you?

Jerry

C'mon, Jerry.
I resemble that.
(My kid did, though. )

[gobama84]

Originally posted by Jerry
We had one league consisting of various age level divisions. Each division had an "All Star" game, complete with commemorative T-shirts and a miniature trophy. EVERY player in the league (who was available for the game)was named to an All Star team; each team being comprised of players from all regular season teams.

They used a continuous batting order, with every player batting. Each player was announced beforehand, stating his name and his team affiliation. No pitcher could pitch more than one inning. No team could score more than 5-runs an inning (at all age levels) and except for that rule and to track outs per inning, each game consisted of a full 7-innings. Coaches were prohibited from having their own kids on their team.

Talk about cameras! No pressure; no arguments; just a bunch of proud parents, coaches and kids.

Tournament teams however!!!! My Lord what a fiasco!

This is so Politically Correct it stinks. No wonder the world is in such a mess. Let's give them all a trophy. Waa! Waa! And while you're at it please don't spank my little Johnny in school.
Does anybody wonder why kids are shooting each other in schools these days? It's because we no longer teach the how to lose graciously.

[Jerry]

Loyd:
"Politically Correct" wasn't even in the vocabulary at that time. Folks actually "played" baseball.

When I coached, I think our team may have won one game the entire season . . . and that was by forfeit.

But if you asked any kid in the league what team they wanted to play on . . . guess what the answer was.

I still have an autographed baseball . . . "To the coach that brought us donuts on Saturday morning practices."

Funny . . . I ran into a "kid" recently (who now plays in the MSBL) who recognized my name (I'm now an umpire). His memories of our time together when he was a pre-teen still remain with him.

I had parents (yes, parents!) tell me . . . "my son would have quit playing baseball except for how you praised all the kids no matter how poorly they did." Our most-prized trophy for the year was "The Most Improved" . . . meaning somebody actually caught the ball by the end of the year.

We had one kid who actually went on to play Minor League ball; he played a game with a broken wrist . . . because he wanted to. (With full approval of his parents, by the way.)

It's the crybabies and wannabe's of today's baseball that gives the sport a bad name; not the dedicated "kids" of yesteryear!

There's no such thing as a bad kid; they're all "All Stars" to me!

Jerry

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Yes Basebal1187,

I see the same thing here in our local leagues - Coaches always have their lackluster son's on their team in the more important positions. Better players setting on the bench while the coach (father) tries to motivate his son to a higher level of performance.

These sons, promoted beyond their ability, generally act very indifferent and unmotivated. SUCH IS LIFE - THE THINGS THAT WE DON'T EARN ARE NOT IMPORTANT TO US. Surely there are exceptions; a father's love is not, and should not, be earned; but there are those kids that fail to see its importance until later in life, or until it is too late.

It is very frustrating to see your loved son setting on the bench while the coach's son lobs in beachball after beachball and the score difference gets wider and wider... or the coaches son/catcher lets every other pitch get passed him ... or refuses to bunt when father/coach tells him to sacrafice... or a million other stupidities. And the child is indignant or indifferent. The child's position on the team was unearned and the child's attitude is disrespectfully lazy. Yes, the undeserving child looks bad but the father/coach looks worse.

Some people have integrity and can correctly choose and coach talented players. Others refuse to recognize their own immaturity and think they can create desire in their son by giving undeserved opportunity. Again and again the desire never gets passed from the father to the son... all the while a deserving child with loads of desire sits the bench... frustrated... complaining that he doesn't get opportunity. The undeserving one who received the opportunity, often grows to be a flippant braggart. The deserving child who didn't receive opportunity often succumbs to the level of underacheiver and complainer - unwilling to put forth the effort because it wasn't recognized and rewarded, finding consolation among others that also feel they have been wronged. It's a tough cycle to break.

As somebody else has pointed out... this is life. I see this kind of childish crap going on all around me in all facets of business.

Basebal1187, you write and think very well for a 15 year old... and defend your thoughts very well... for a 15 year old. Perhaps around you, there will be an island integrity - we tend to create our own environment. I think you will grow to live in a wholesome one.

Best to you, Tony

[whitecane12]

Originally posted by Jerry
Loyd:

There's no such thing as a bad kid; they're all "All Stars" to me!

Jerry

Well said, Jerry!

[Gemini]

In addition to the coaches selecting, we have 2 recreation department staffers that have a vote as well. This helps, but does not solve the problem mentioned here.

I'm a blue, but when I was coaching, I wanted the best players regardless of who their parents were. I've made people mad, but I told them in my opinion their sons/daughters were not the best. I did tone it down.

[gobama84]

Originally posted by whitecane12

Well said, Jerry!

Yes, well said Jerry, but where did I say these All Stars you are talking about are bad kids? I was implying that they were being fed a bunch of crap, GIVING them trophies and tee shirts as if they were All Stars. That's almost the same thing that happened to start the orgininal arguement about people being selected All Stars because their DADDYs the coach.
Have a blessed day,

[Trojans73]

I certainly do not have a solution to the problem you originally stated. That problem has been around a long time and will undoubtedly remain with us until the end of baseball.

I basically just wanted to say I am quite impressed with how you have responded to some of the replies. It seems you are on your way to being an All-Star in other areas more important than youth baseball.

Keep up the good work. Try to enjoy baseball while you can.

[thumpferee]

Unfortunately favoritism exists in youth sports and is not likely to change any time soon due to the fact that the only ones who volunteer to coach are the parents of the athletes.

I am a 4 year official and have a son who is twelve who played lil' league this year. A tryout was held to chose an All Star team to compete in a European Little League Tournament with World Series hopes. I called games for them during the season and was asked, as well as several other parents, to help with the tryouts and be an evaluator.

Fortunately my son was probably one of the top 5 players in the league, so there were no worries of him not making the team. But anyway, I came up with a way to evaluate players even though parents were doing the evaluating.

We lined up the athletes who were trying out and had them start counting 1,2,3 etc. They were told to remember their number. On our evaluation sheet, it showed...batting, fly balls, ground balls. Under each were numbers with very good, good, average, poor. Here's an example.

Batting Ground Balls Fly Balls

1. Excellent Excellent
Above Average etc
Average
Poor

Comments:_________________________________________ _____

2. ETC....


We then seperated them into groups for infielding and outfielding. Once we as evaluators saw all of them field grounders and throw to first from short, we switched and saw them all catch fly balls, then we watched them all hit.
As they went out to their position to perform the different drills, we asked them their number. Obviously as an evaluator, you know your own son's number, but not the others. Even if you as a parent gave high marks for your son, it may not be reflected in the other evaluators chart as they evaluate the same drills. At the end we all got together and made the cut based on our evals.