A question of Ethics...

[AZBlue]

I am a second year Ump, working both LL and Fed (High School Freshman/JV) games. I worked a U-9 Travel tournament a week back, with three other umps from the Local LL.

On day one of the Tournament, it became evident that one of the kids from an "away" team had a big stick and was definitely a threat at the plate.

When I arrived on Day 2, the two umpires working the other crew were discussing with the "local" team manager how they thought he should pitch to this kid to avoid giving up any big hits.

I am wondering if anyone else has encountered this sort of thing in your umpiring experience. Because of the training I received from the State Association, and what I consider the integrity of the official, I would never discuss with any manager specific observations of another team or its players.

I have considered bringing this up with the league UIC, but I am pretty sure he would not see it as a concern. I have already decided to skip this tournament next year, if for no other reason than 6 games in 110 F weather makes for one looooong weekend!

Thanks,
Jim

[chris s]

Originally posted by AZBlue
I am a second year Ump, working both LL and Fed (High School Freshman/JV) games. I worked a U-9 Travel tournament a week back, with three other umps from the Local LL.

On day one of the Tournament, it became evident that one of the kids from an "away" team had a big stick and was definitely a threat at the plate.

When I arrived on Day 2, the two umpires working the other crew were discussing with the "local" team manager how they thought he should pitch to this kid to avoid giving up any big hits.

I am wondering if anyone else has encountered this sort of thing in your umpiring experience. Because of the training I received from the State Association, and what I consider the integrity of the official, I would never discuss with any manager specific observations of another team or its players.

I have considered bringing this up with the league UIC, but I am pretty sure he would not see it as a concern. I have already decided to skip this tournament next year, if for no other reason than 6 games in 110 F weather makes for one looooong weekend!

Thanks,
Jim

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~
You are on the right track. We are there to officiate, not coach or scout for the teams. I work some fairly large tourneys during the season, lotsa coaches know me. I get asked, hey what does so and so look like, ya worked em. I always come back with, "Gee, so many games I can't remember". NEVER, would I freely offer info as to how to pitch to a kid. As I have heard before, "If you tend your own garden, everybody else will reap what they sew"
Good advice IMHO, plus, being relatively new in your assc., don't get termed as a rat for snitching on the "good ol boys

JMHO

[AZBlue]

Thanks, Chris!

That sounds like good advice, and the tournament is over, the team with the big hitter (and much better players) won easily.

I just wondered if anyone else had these sorts of experiences when they were starting out. Guess it's not all that common.

Thanks,
Jim

[His High Holiness]

Originally posted by AZBlue
Thanks, Chris!

I just wondered if anyone else had these sorts of experiences when they were starting out. Guess it's not all that common.

Thanks,
Jim

Jim,

Regrettably it's all too common, especially in areas where coaches have input into the umpire selection and assigning process. Umpires recognize that they must have the coaches on their side. What the umpires that you witnessed did was to engage in low risk behavior in order to curry favor with the coaches.

Look at it from the umpires' perspective. They curry favor with the coaches at the expense of an out of town team that is not their client and cannot hurt them. Yet they did not have to alter any of their calls in the game. Bottom line, they crossed the ethical boundary just a little bit.

My opinion. For even raising the question, you probably have too high an ethical standard to be an umpire, at least in that association.

One thing that all umpires need to keep in mind, whether they be ethical or unethical. Coaches will not respect umpires that engage in that type of behavior. They will thank you profusely for your input, and even favor you for their games, but they will not respect you.

Even if the unethical umpires know the coaches attitudes, they will still engage in these shenanigans. Why? Because their behavior makes it more difficult for the ethical guy to move up. It makes it much more difficult for the new guy to move up. Not only does he have to master rules and mechanics, he must master a maze of smoke and mirrors. It's the good ole boy way of keeping the wannabes in their place.

Peter

[soonerfan]

Jim,

i can ride the fence on that last thread from His High Holiness.

i'll agree that your situation is a bit unethical. however, i'll also throw in that an umpire that is that concerned with making buddies with a coach is probably not confident enough in their officiating ability, therefore making them seemingly a weak umpire. when i used to do little league baseball, i could care less who did well and won what. if you didn't like the call...welcome to baseball. things happen we don't like all the time.

so, i can see where they would want to johnny up to a coach or two, but i don't think that would affect your promotability at all. the way you move up is to always ask a lot of questions to umpires that are better than you, show profound knowledge of rotations, sharp mechanics, good verbal presentaion, great timing, and ability to handle situations. that's how i did it. ti works.

[AZBlue]

I have never given any consideration at all to "moving up", either in football or baseball. Perhaps because I am still new enough to appreciate just being able to work games and learn, or perhaps because my "day job" adequately provides for all my financial needs; in any event, moving up or getting better assignments is the least of my concerns.

Perhaps this will change over time, or maybe I am have too much idealism (along with integrity) to be an umpire.

What I do know, is that I have NEVER witnessed this behavior in the High School games I have worked, and that is why it stood out to me as being wrong.

Are you saying that this also happens at all levels you officiate at? If so, I am in for a very rude awakening, I guess...

Thanks for all the thoughts, I really do appreciate the input. We did not cover any of this in my pre-season training!

Jim

[soonerfan]

jim,

His High Holiness mentioned "moving up" so i did. anyhow, what you witnessed goes on in a lot of places from little league and on up.

i have been a lot of places and heard a lot of stories along the way. i even heard of a HS game where a kid hit a home run and upon crossing the plate the plate ump high fived him. of course, the other coach went ballistic.

i worked an independent league once and my partners were always hanging out with the player and managers at the bars, constantly chattering it up. i saw this as a little familiar and did not want to know them. the first screw up and they are all over you. i didn't talk to anyone and they saw me as a person there to work and work only. if the questioned a call, they treaded lightly because they didn't know me at all. they weren't my "buddy."

point is, whether you partake or stay away from all the fraternizing with coaches makes no difference because it will happen. if it becomes an issue where you work a game with a "coaches buddy" and your partner throws you under the bus to keep his "buddy" happy, then you have a problem. as long as you show up and do your job and that's it, you'll be respected.

[GarthB]

I'll take a different approach on this, one that HHH might have written a few years back.

I can see that these umpires may have been just shooting the breeze for any number of reasons,(most likely, sucking up, but possibly just killing time) with a coach. Any coach worth his salt is going to, at best, humor the umps and then ignore anything they have to say about coaching.

Quite possibly the whole episode was meaningless BS.

Now then, if one of the umpires said: "Throw him down and in today because I'm calling anything that hits the black and stays out of the dirt a strike," it would be another issue entirely.