8.3.2.k

[UmpTTS43]

Not enough information to answer adequately.

[MikeStrybel]

Sure there is. On this ground ball play, the runner will be almost always running through the base, not looking to go to second. On a wide throw (as opposed to an inside throw), the fielder may be taken into a place where his momentum causes a collison with B/R after he has gained the base safely. The latter was not impeded on a ball that is caught. As has been suggested, if the throw had sailed high and wide (or skipped by), and the runner would have likely had an opportunity to advance, you could have OBS.

I once had a play involving just such a throw. The right handed first baseman lunged towards right for the throw from third and caught it just above his shoulders. He windmilled his arm backwards and caught the B/R squarely in the face a half step past the bag. B/R went down in a heap, covered in blood from a broken nose. After the player was removed, his HC wanted to know if his new base runner was going to get 2nd. He did not since there was no OBS. The HC smiled, knowing that he had tried, as he walked away.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Sure there is. On this ground ball play, the runner will be almost always running through the base, not looking to go to second. On a wide throw (as opposed to an inside throw), the fielder may be taken into a place where his momentum causes a collison with B/R after he has gained the base safely. The latter was not impeded on a ball that is caught. As has been suggested, if the throw had sailed high and wide (or skipped by), and the runner would have likely had an opportunity to advance, you could have OBS.

I once had a play involving just such a throw. The right handed first baseman lunged towards right for the throw from third and caught it just above his shoulders. He windmilled his arm backwards and caught the B/R squarely in the face a half step past the bag. B/R went down in a heap, covered in blood from a broken nose. After the player was removed, his HC wanted to know if his new base runner was going to get 2nd. He did not since there was no OBS. The HC smiled, knowing that he had tried, as he walked away.

You're ALWAYS looking to go to second - if you're doing it properly.

When running through the base you look to the right to see if the ball got past F3 or to pick up a "go" from the 1B coach.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

You're ALWAYS looking to go to second - if you're doing it properly.

When running through the base you look to the right to see if the ball got past F3 or to pick up a "go" from the 1B coach.

Okay Rich, we will A2D.

On this particular play, the collision will undoubtedly take place almost immediately after the the base has been touched - we are talking a half step, step or two at most. I have never seen a B/R make a step towards second on such a play. On routine ground balls to the infield the runner is almost always hightailing it down and through, careful to not turn right. I don't work ball below the varsity level so I've never seen it. The play you described may happen at younger levels. If so, those umpires can now know what to do.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Okay Rich, we will A2D.

On this particular play, the collision will undoubtedly take place almost immediately after the the base has been touched - we are talking a half step, step or two at most. I have never seen a B/R make a step towards second on such a play. On routine ground balls to the infield the runner is almost always hightailing it down and through, careful to not turn right. I don't work ball below the varsity level so I've never seen it. The play you described may happen at younger levels. If so, those umpires can now know what to do.

I didn't say they do step. Not at all. Ever. What I said is that you always look for the opportunity.

BECAUSE: What if the ball had gone down the RF line - you have to be ready to go.

So what then if getting knocked down impeded the runners ability to go to 2B. Then what?

Next time you're at a game and not umping watch the runners.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

I didn't say they do step. Not at all. Ever. What I said is that you always look for the opportunity.

BECAUSE: What if the ball had gone down the RF line - you have to be ready to go.

So what then if getting knocked down impeded the runners ability to go to 2B. Then what?

Next time you're at a game and not umping watch the runners.

Rich,

Seriously, it is alright to A2D. I and the Fed rules authors don't call it OBS.

I coach my son's U12 team, by the way. It is great fun and therapy for a hectic umpiring schedule. I wish you a great Spring. May this snow melt soon so we can get out there and enjoy the game again.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Okay Rich, we will A2D.

On this particular play, the collision will undoubtedly take place almost immediately after the the base has been touched - we are talking a half step, step or two at most. I have never seen a B/R make a step towards second on such a play. On routine ground balls to the infield the runner is almost always hightailing it down and through, careful to not turn right.

What? Why?

I don't work ball below the varsity level so I've never seen it. The play you described may happen at younger levels. If so, those umpires can now know what to do.

I think the missing piece here is whether F3 caught the ball. If she did, then the ruling makes sense - if not, we have OBS either way.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I think the missing piece here is whether F3 caught the ball. If she did, then the ruling makes sense - if not, we have OBS either way.

The CB ruling says "prior to possessing the ball". That indicates (at least to me) that F3 does eventually catch the throw.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CT1

The CB ruling says "prior to possessing the ball". That indicates (at least to me) that F3 does eventually catch the throw.

Yeah, it implies it, I agree. Since he said "possessing" instead of "catching", I did not assume, and left open the possibility that F3 had to go get it before possessing it.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I think the missing piece here is whether F3 caught the ball.

The question clearly states that he doesn't possess the ball. He is lunging for it when the collison occurs.

If she did, then the ruling makes sense - if not, we have OBS either way.

The Fed rule has already been stated - this is a Case Book play after all. Feel free to disagree with them.

Also, I don't work games with female players.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

The question clearly states that he doesn't possess the ball. He is lunging for it when the collison occurs.



The Fed rule has already been stated - this is a Case Book play after all. Feel free to disagree with them.

Also, I don't work games with female players.

I'm not disagreeing with the caseplay and I'm not sure what nit you're picking with the first statement.

Maybe this will clarify... I'm saying the interp posted in the first post does not apply to a ball that is not caught by F3 (assumedly immediately after contact) - but does apply to one that IS caught (gloved, whatever --- POSSESSED immediately after contact).

Are you saying that if, on a wild throw toward right field, if F3 contacts the batter-runner while trying to catch the ball AFTER BR has touched first - and then does not catch the ball, you do not have OBS on F3 when BR sees the ball get away and heads to 2nd? If you are not saying this, then no one is disagreeing with you.

If you ARE saying that, I believe you are wrong - and that the OP's interp is not for this play.