Maybe a stupid question...

[Jim Porter]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Let us take the real world for a moment. You are telling me if some guy, with an agenda would to come and talk to you about a drug test, you would take that test no questions asked? They would have no evidence that you are a drug user. Or you would not be aware of the clinic that would be conducting the test. And you would have no knowledge of what kind of substance they are checking for and allow the public to have access to that personal information? If anyone did that in any job, they might put their livelyhood in total jeapordy. They might have a false-positive that is triggered by other substances and you would have no good way to defend yourself after the information is put out.

Peace

Ummmm, you've outlined the pre-employment screening process for just about every job in America nowadays. Some guy with the agenda of saving his company money on insurance comes to you with a cup with no evidence you are a drug user and doesn't necessarily tell you where it will be processed or what they will be looking for and the results aren't covered under any privacy laws so it can be shared with anyone who wants it and false positives can occur giving you an option to appeal the test but the damage has been done and you are already labeled a drug user guilty before proven innocent.

What makes Sosa any different from the rest of us? Oh, that's right, he's baseball player making millions. The rules for us everyday slobs don't apply to him.

[woolnojg]

Sorry. In Sammy's case, this issue has to be covered by the CBA. He is already employed and it is a change of the rules of employment.
In the case of the average slob and pre-employment screening, it is a condition of employment. The applicant can submit or refuse.It affects wheher or not he is hired but it is still his choice.

[GarthB]

woolguy:

You don't get the point. Sammie wasn't being forced to take a test. He VOLUNTEERED to take it. And then, when taken up on his over, went beserk and refused.

This has nothing to do with the CBA. This has everything to do with credibility.

[Gottagame2day]

Originally posted by greymule
There's plenty of evidence that Sosa uses steroids. The chiseled features of his face are a dead giveaway. That "look" comes from nothing else.

That look (heavy brow/Chin line, etc.) is consistent with Growth Hormones, not steroids.

[Jim Porter]

Originally posted by woolnojg
In the case of the average slob and pre-employment screening, it is a condition of employment. The applicant can submit or refuse.It affects wheher or not he is hired but it is still his choice.

Don't give me this applicant can accept or refuse garbage. Everybody needs a job, and insurance companies have pretty much made pre-employment screenings routine everywhere. If you refuse, you don't get work for the most part.

A man in our society today is judged by his urine. That's pretty sad.

I can hear it now . . .

"Well, if you have nothing to hide . . ."

Corporate fascism makes me sick. I'm so happy to be self-employed, where my urine can go into my toilet.

[sunfudblu]

Growth hormones.....steroids.....they both cause things to grOW. In a very unnatural way.

[exphysio]

i had this topic for a pretend debate in my high school english class, and these were the prepared arguments:

Should Sammy Sosa be suspended for using a corked bat?

We believe Sammy Sosa should be suspended for being found to have used a corked bat in play in an official Major League Baseball Game. It’s wrong to have a corked bat because it goes against the official game rules. Rule 6.06D says:

“A batter is out for illegal action when: He uses or attempts to use a bat that, in the umpire's judgment, has been altered or tampered with in such a way to improve the distance factor or cause an unusual reaction on the baseball. This includes, bats that are filled, flat surfaced, nailed, hollowed, grooved or covered with a substance such as paraffin, wax, etc. No advancement on the bases will be allowed and any out or outs made during a play shall stand. In addition to being called out, the player shall be ejected from the game and may be subject to additional penalties as determined by his League President.”

First of all, we have all cheated in a game before once or twice. It does not matter if it is intentional or accidental. It doesn't mean that we have always been cheaters, and it doesn't mean we should go un-punished. Sammy is still one of the greatest homerun hitters of all time.

Sosa has had a tough time lately. He was hit on the head April 20th, surviving a fastball that shattered his helmet. A sore toe placed him on the disabled list for three weeks. Even the greatest hitters get in slumps. We must admit that it can be quite tempting even for the best of the best to try to get some kind of advantage over his competitors.

What Sammy Sosa calls an accident, picking up a bat he is supposed to just use for batting practice, may have led to an unnoticed unfair win for the Chicago Cubs. This is why we cannot just let it slide. We need to preserve the integrity of Major League Baseball and continue to follow the official rules. Sammy, himself, respects these rules. He says: "Whatever punishment that they are going to do, I am going to accept it.”

In addition, we have some doubts ourselves as to whether Sosa is telling the truth:

Yes, it is possible he picked it up by accident, but Sosa’s attempts to make it look like an accident just don’t work. If he had only one corked bat and it was only used for certain batting practice sessions, it had to have some clearly identifiable characteristics to distinguish it from the other 76 bats. Major league hitters don't just pick their bats out of a pile. They have bat boys who are supposed to sort it out for them. They stand in the “on deck circle” and swing it.

Secondly, while it is true that the MLB administration found that the 76 bats of Sosa’s that were confiscated came out clean and had no cork in them when x-rayed, we still believe that this does not mean he shouldn’t be suspended. These bats were taken from his locker back in the clubhouse. There is no reason to own more than one bat, unless a player is dumb enough to believe he'll be able to go back to the dugout to get a replacement after the first one shatters in front of umpires, the other team, and more than 30,000 witnesses.

One might argue that corked bats only provide little benefit anyway. It not only goes against the official rules to use a corked bat in play, but researchers at the University of Massachusettes Lowell found that results from corking a bat result in a slight 1% increase in batted-ball speed when compared to solid wood bats.

Third, Sosa gets his bats from the Hoosier Bat Company in Indiana. Right now, two Hoosier bats are in the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, New York. Sammy Sosa used a Hoosier bat when he hit home runs number 64, 65 and 66 in 1998. “The Hoosier Bat company has never corked a bat for any player and in fact the company doesn't have the capability of drilling a 10-inch hole in a bat to cork one”, Soltero said. "But they do cup bats. Cupping bats means taking what looks like an ice cream scoop of wood out of the top of the bat. Cupping lightens a bat by an ounce or an ounce and a half.” But the ones I have pictured here on the day of the incident look noticeably different from the Hoosier bats he normally uses:

His corked bat incident: (when he stepped up to the plate in the 1st inning of the game.


The X-Bat Bat breaks - umpire spots black stuff in core



What X-Bat Co Bats look like off company website:



The Hoosier Bats: (which can be found in Cooperstown, NY - Baseball Hall of Fame, as well as promotional posters like these.)



from Hoosier Co Website



"I got called immediately from the bat company that he got ejected," said Soltero, a national sales representative for Hoosier Bats, one of the companies that provides bats for the Chicago Cubs slugger.

Soltero, of Columbus, has been working for the Indiana-based bat company since 1999, one year after Sosa first started to use the Hoosier Bats.

After he was told what happened, Soltero said he tuned in to ESPN to see if it was one of his company's bats that Sosa used.

"Part of me wanted to believe it was ours and part of me wanted it to not be ours," said Soltero, adding that any publicity, bad or good, would be good for the company.

But it turns out the bat used was from a company called X Bat.

By serving the suspension, Sosa may be able to improve his view in front of the fans. He can also minimize the long-term negative effects on his reputation. After the suspension, they will feel as though justice was served and at least have respect for the game rules.

In the past, 4 people have been found to have used corked bats in major league play. All 4 were in fact suspended: They are: Wilton Guerro, LA Dodgers, 1997. Chris Sabo, 1996. Albert Belle, 1994. Billy Hatcher, 1987. Many gave excuses such as Sabo who said it wasn’t his bat, and Hatcher, who said he was unaware it had been corked and had borrowed it from pitcher Dave Smith. Are we to believe that Sammy Sosa should be the big leagues first exception? It has already been decide upon that Sosa is suspended for eight games, But he has appealed the suspension and can still play until the decision is announced on his appeal, which is scheduled for today. Whether intentional or not, he admits he made a mistake and he must pay for it by sitting out some games.

[GarthB]

According to today's newspaper, Sammy's suspension is WITH pay.

"Sosa earns more than $70,000 per game and stood to lose nearly $500,000 because it's written in his contract that he would not be paid if the commissioner's office suspended him. But the clause is moot because baseball's Collective Bargaining Agreement supercedes the contract and explicitly stipulates that all players must be paid while on the suspended list."



So he's caught cheating and he gets a paid vacation.

Wow. That'll teach him.

[Edited by GarthB on Jun 13th, 2003 at 01:03 AM]