The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 22, 2012, 02:47pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 74
8.3.2.k

F6 fields a ground ball and throws to F3 in attempt to retire B1 at first. The ball is thrown wide. As F3 lunges toward the ball, F3 collides with B1, knocking him to the ground prior to possessing the ball (a) while the runner is short of first base or (b) after the runner has contacted first base.
RULING: (a) Obstruction; (b) legal

Any ideas why the rulings are different?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 22, 2012, 03:25pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hamburg, NJ
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sco53 View Post
F6 fields a ground ball and throws to F3 in attempt to retire B1 at first. The ball is thrown wide. As F3 lunges toward the ball, F3 collides with B1, knocking him to the ground prior to possessing the ball (a) while the runner is short of first base or (b) after the runner has contacted first base.
RULING: (a) Obstruction; (b) legal

Any ideas why the rulings are different?
I've read this play a few times and I still have a problem picturing how F3 knocks over B1 after B1 has passed 1st.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 22, 2012, 03:41pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 7,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sco53 View Post
Any ideas why the rulings are different?
Sure, only in (a) does the fielder prevent the BR from reaching the base.
__________________
Cheers,
mb
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 22, 2012, 04:21pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richvee View Post
I've read this play a few times and I still have a problem picturing how F3 knocks over B1 after B1 has passed 1st.
Picture the "wide" being toward foul right field.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 22, 2012, 04:22pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
Sure, only in (a) does the fielder prevent the BR from reaching the base.
In b it prevents the runner from going to 2nd as quickly as they would have if the ball is not caught. This ruling is not congruent with the rest of the book.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 22, 2012, 04:34pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hamburg, NJ
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
Picture the "wide" being toward foul right field.
OK. I can see it. Thanks. Given that situation, if F3 doesn't catch the ball, hasn't he obstructed B1 from advancing to 2nd?
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 22, 2012, 05:14pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 7,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
In b it prevents the runner from going to 2nd as quickly as they would have if the ball is not caught. This ruling is not congruent with the rest of the book.
In both versions of the case, F3 possesses the ball, making an advance by the BR unwise. The case is designed to address OBS at 1B only.

I'd certainly consider OBS if the ball got away from F3.
__________________
Cheers,
mb
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 22, 2012, 08:03pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 425
Not enough information to answer adequately.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 23, 2012, 09:09am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northwest suburbs of Chicago
Posts: 645
Sure there is. On this ground ball play, the runner will be almost always running through the base, not looking to go to second. On a wide throw (as opposed to an inside throw), the fielder may be taken into a place where his momentum causes a collison with B/R after he has gained the base safely. The latter was not impeded on a ball that is caught. As has been suggested, if the throw had sailed high and wide (or skipped by), and the runner would have likely had an opportunity to advance, you could have OBS.

I once had a play involving just such a throw. The right handed first baseman lunged towards right for the throw from third and caught it just above his shoulders. He windmilled his arm backwards and caught the B/R squarely in the face a half step past the bag. B/R went down in a heap, covered in blood from a broken nose. After the player was removed, his HC wanted to know if his new base runner was going to get 2nd. He did not since there was no OBS. The HC smiled, knowing that he had tried, as he walked away.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 23, 2012, 10:34am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStrybel View Post
Sure there is. On this ground ball play, the runner will be almost always running through the base, not looking to go to second. On a wide throw (as opposed to an inside throw), the fielder may be taken into a place where his momentum causes a collison with B/R after he has gained the base safely. The latter was not impeded on a ball that is caught. As has been suggested, if the throw had sailed high and wide (or skipped by), and the runner would have likely had an opportunity to advance, you could have OBS.

I once had a play involving just such a throw. The right handed first baseman lunged towards right for the throw from third and caught it just above his shoulders. He windmilled his arm backwards and caught the B/R squarely in the face a half step past the bag. B/R went down in a heap, covered in blood from a broken nose. After the player was removed, his HC wanted to know if his new base runner was going to get 2nd. He did not since there was no OBS. The HC smiled, knowing that he had tried, as he walked away.
You're ALWAYS looking to go to second - if you're doing it properly.

When running through the base you look to the right to see if the ball got past F3 or to pick up a "go" from the 1B coach.
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 23, 2012, 11:27am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sco53 View Post
F6 fields a ground ball and throws to F3 in attempt to retire B1 at first. The ball is thrown wide. As F3 lunges toward the ball, F3 collides with B1, knocking him to the ground prior to possessing the ball (a) while the runner is short of first base or (b) after the runner has contacted first base.
RULING: (a) Obstruction; (b) legal

Any ideas why the rulings are different?
Was F3 in position to field the wide throw or was he "chasing" after it? If he was in position, nothing. If he was chasing, OBS.

Again, not enough info.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 23, 2012, 02:32pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northwest suburbs of Chicago
Posts: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
You're ALWAYS looking to go to second - if you're doing it properly.

When running through the base you look to the right to see if the ball got past F3 or to pick up a "go" from the 1B coach.
Okay Rich, we will A2D.

On this particular play, the collision will undoubtedly take place almost immediately after the the base has been touched - we are talking a half step, step or two at most. I have never seen a B/R make a step towards second on such a play. On routine ground balls to the infield the runner is almost always hightailing it down and through, careful to not turn right. I don't work ball below the varsity level so I've never seen it. The play you described may happen at younger levels. If so, those umpires can now know what to do.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 23, 2012, 06:14pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStrybel View Post
Okay Rich, we will A2D.

On this particular play, the collision will undoubtedly take place almost immediately after the the base has been touched - we are talking a half step, step or two at most. I have never seen a B/R make a step towards second on such a play. On routine ground balls to the infield the runner is almost always hightailing it down and through, careful to not turn right. I don't work ball below the varsity level so I've never seen it. The play you described may happen at younger levels. If so, those umpires can now know what to do.
I didn't say they do step. Not at all. Ever. What I said is that you always look for the opportunity.

BECAUSE: What if the ball had gone down the RF line - you have to be ready to go.

So what then if getting knocked down impeded the runners ability to go to 2B. Then what?

Next time you're at a game and not umping watch the runners.
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 23, 2012, 06:19pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStrybel View Post
Okay Rich, we will A2D.

On this particular play, the collision will undoubtedly take place almost immediately after the the base has been touched - we are talking a half step, step or two at most. I have never seen a B/R make a step towards second on such a play. On routine ground balls to the infield the runner is almost always hightailing it down and through, careful to not turn right.
What? Why?

Quote:
I don't work ball below the varsity level so I've never seen it. The play you described may happen at younger levels. If so, those umpires can now know what to do.
I think the missing piece here is whether F3 caught the ball. If she did, then the ruling makes sense - if not, we have OBS either way.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 24, 2012, 08:10am
CT1 CT1 is offline
Official & ***** Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
I think the missing piece here is whether F3 caught the ball. If she did, then the ruling makes sense - if not, we have OBS either way.
The CB ruling says "prior to possessing the ball". That indicates (at least to me) that F3 does eventually catch the throw.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:18pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1