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[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

And what Gallup Poll did you commission to reach that conclusion?

If truth be told (it kills me to say it) Soccer will soon be the sport of choice when the kids grow up.

The NF has baseball as the fourth most popular sport as it relates to participation.

I do not agree with the last part because our country only thinks of this country in such a narrow way. Real soccer talent is playing outside of this country. How many kids want to go to Spain or Brazil or England to play a game they cannot see on SportsCenter? Also does the average kid know the contracts of Messi or Kaka like they do A-Rod or LeBron. Our best athletes do not play soccer and probably never will in this country unless there is a huge shift in attitude towards football and basketball. Even with the lockout in the NBA, kids love NBA basketball or at least some of the best athletes that are likely to become NBA players and that is inner-city or urban background kids. And playing soccer is expensive for a kid to play, while basketball you do not need much to become decent.

Peace

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

...And playing soccer is expensive for a kid to play...

What is your context for this comment? All you need for soccer is open space and something to pass for a ball.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Dakota

What is your context for this comment? All you need for soccer is open space and something to pass for a ball.

You need soccer balls, fields, goals and probably shoes to play at the highest levels of organized ball and other individuals to play with or against to test you real skill. When I went to the World Cup last year I saw many kids playing in the playground, who does that in the states?

I can go to the local gym right now and play the game alone by shooting baskets, but will find many willing participants to play against in a semi-serious way.

Peace

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The NF has baseball as the fourth most popular sport as it relates to participation.

I do not agree with the last part because our country only thinks of this country in such a narrow way. Real soccer talent is playing outside of this country. How many kids want to go to Spain or Brazil or England to play a game they cannot see on SportsCenter? Also does the average kid know the contracts of Messi or Kaka like they do A-Rod or LeBron. Our best athletes do not play soccer and probably never will in this country unless there is a huge shift in attitude towards football and basketball. Even with the lockout in the NBA, kids love NBA basketball or at least some of the best athletes that are likely to become NBA players and that is inner-city or urban background kids. And playing soccer is expensive for a kid to play, while basketball you do not need much to become decent.

Peace

In the fall the parks are filled and I mean filled to capacity with little kids playing soccer. These little kids will grow up to be soccer fans. As far as soccer being expensive well all you need is a ball. Incidently I think MLB set another attendance record. That's a lot of 45 year olds going to games. I won't see it in my lifetime but when the studies come out and show how serious concussions are participation in football will go way down. You know why? The Moms won't let their sons play.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And playing soccer is expensive for a kid to play, while basketball you do not need much to become decent.

The fact that soccer, in it's most basic form, is INexpensive is the very reason it's the world's most popular sport.

It's my opinion, however, that it won't become wildly popular among adults in the U.S. until they do something to increase scoring.

Carrots.

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by CT1

The fact that soccer, in it's most basic form, is INexpensive is the very reason it's the world's most popular sport.

It's my opinion, however, that it won't become wildly popular among adults in the U.S. until they do something to increase scoring.

Carrots.

As soon as they figure how to make the sport attractive to gambling that's when it will take off. That's one of the main reasons why football is so popular. It's the gambling.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

In the fall the parks are filled and I mean filled to capacity with little kids playing soccer. These little kids will grow up to be soccer fans.

Just because a kid played soccer from ages 9-13 doesn't mean that they will be a life long soccer fan.

Originally Posted by gordon30307

I won't see it in my lifetime but when the studies come out and show how serious concussions are participation in football will go way down. You know why? The Moms won't let their sons play.

Assuming that the concussions studies actually produce the results that you are predicting and assuming that helmet technology does not improve and reduce the risk of concussions.

Riddell introduced a new helmet in 2002. A three year study was conducted using over 2,000 HS football players the the new helmet reduced the risk of a player suffering their first concussion by 41%. Riddell recently introduced a new helmet but I don't believe there are statistics on that helmet yet. Football players used to have a decent risk of suffering a skull fracture and dying. Helmet technology has basically eliminated that risk. Helmet technology is continuing to improve and reduce the risk of concussions.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

As soon as they figure how to make the sport attractive to gambling that's when it will take off. That's one of the main reasons why football is so popular. It's the gambling.

Sorry I disagree. Football is more exciting to many if for no other reason the score is more than 1-0 or games do not end in 1-1.

Also you act like football is not being played by kids at young ages. There are leagues all over our area where every Saturday and Sunday kids that can barely keep a helmet on their head are playing every single weekend. I pass a park where kids play soccer and there are not the amount of teams I see playing football and certainly not the group playing basketball.

And they gamble in soccer all over the world. Some of the biggest scandals in soccer across the world have been based on gambling. I do not see fantasy soccer being played for a sport that scores only a few times an entire game. It is also not apart of our culture like it is in other countries. When I went to South Africa all that was on TV was soccer and rugby. When the South African team was playing, the entire country was on lock down and everyone was watching. Even with the minimal popularity we have here, the entire country is not just watching soccer.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

I won't see it in my lifetime but when the studies come out and show how serious concussions are participation in football will go way down. You know why? The Moms won't let their sons play.

You must not see many youth football games. Moms are the ones sitting their yelling for their kids to play football the most at the ages you claim are playing soccer. Lacrosse has probably one of the biggest followings recently in this country, not soccer.

Peace

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Assuming that the concussions studies actually produce the results that you are predicting and assuming that helmet technology does not improve and reduce the risk of concussions.

Riddell introduced a new helmet in 2002. A three year study was conducted using over 2,000 HS football players the the new helmet reduced the risk of a player suffering their first concussion by 41%. Riddell recently introduced a new helmet but I don't believe there are statistics on that helmet yet. Football players used to have a decent risk of suffering a skull fracture and dying. Helmet technology has basically eliminated that risk. Helmet technology is continuing to improve and reduce the risk of concussions.

Assuming we are considering the same company and technology, that study was proven to be flawed. The Revolution helmet reduced consuccions by about 3%. A couple of football programs have lawsuits pending against them for the misrepresentation. I coach youth football and have seen far too many kids hurt this year.

Soccer/football is played in almost every nation in the world. Many play in the dirt without shoes. Baseball costs far more to play.

Getting back to the original topic, children still watch the Series. Again, last night we returned from football practice and watched the game. Bed time is 9 around here, provided he has his homework done. He saw most of the game. Had it been the Cubs playing I would happily allow my kids to stay up.

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Sorry I disagree. Football is more exciting to many if for no other reason the score is more than 1-0 or games do not end in 1-1.

Also you act like football is not being played by kids at young ages. There are leagues all over our area where every Saturday and Sunday kids that can barely keep a helmet on their head are playing every single weekend. I pass a park where kids play soccer and there are not the amount of teams I see playing football and certainly not the group playing basketball.

And they gamble in soccer all over the world. Some of the biggest scandals in soccer across the world have been based on gambling. I do not see fantasy soccer being played for a sport that scores only a few times an entire game. It is also not apart of our culture like it is in other countries. When I went to South Africa all that was on TV was soccer and rugby. When the South African team was playing, the entire country was on lock down and everyone was watching. Even with the minimal popularity we have here, the entire country is not just watching soccer.

Peace

Jeff,

By far there are more kids (boys and girls) playing soccer in youth leagues than football. It's only a matter of time before soccer becomes a major sport. When it is determined the long term effects concussions have you can be certain the Mom's won't let thier kids play. That's just what Mom's do. I've become disenchanted with football both with the corruption and exploiting of the athletes at the collegiate level and the length of the pro game. Even Notre Dame who I really never liked but always respected has sold its soul to the devil. You remember back in the day the early games were done by 3:00 and the late games by 6:00. It's almost become unwatchable. Now they're done by 3:20 and the last one finishes by 6:30 or so. I don't gamble. Gambling dominates that sport be it fantasy football, parlay cards, bookies etc. I still watch football and I am a Bears Fan and try to watch the game but if I can't I really don't miss it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

Jeff,

By far there are more kids (boys and girls) playing soccer in youth leagues than football. It's only a matter of time before soccer becomes a major sport. When it is determined the long term effects concussions have you can be certain the Mom's won't let thier kids play. That's just what Mom's do.

They told us back in 1994 that Soccer would take over when the World Cup would come to the US. We are over 15 years since then and they cannot fill soccer stadiums for the MLS. And you keep talking about what moms do not want their kids to play, but football has way more participants at the high school level. It is not even close when it comes to numbers or even schools that play. Most schools in our state for example do not even have soccer teams at all. Soccer teams are mostly in the Chicago/Northern in Illinois and are very sparse in the rural areas that probably will never have soccer just because they do not have enough kids to even field a team if they wanted to in HS. Soccer is primarily in middle class areas or areas that have high numbers of Hispanic or ethnic kids that come from countries or parents come from countries that are where soccer is apart of the culture.

I also looked up some numbers in our state 434 playing soccer and 574 playing football in the State of Illinois as both play in the same time of year.

Originally Posted by gordon30307

I've become disenchanted with football both with the corruption and exploiting of the athletes at the collegiate level and the length of the pro game. Even Notre Dame who I really never liked but always respected has sold its soul to the devil. You remember back in the day the early games were done by 3:00 and the late games by 6:00. It's almost become unwatchable. Now they're done by 3:20 and the last one finishes by 6:30 or so.

College football has some of the biggest ratings in all of sports and about 20 different channels run college football games somewhere. There is a daily show on ESPN dedicated to college football. You think that if it was unwatchable that ESPN would dedicate so much programming to an unwatchable sport? Not only that, if ESPN did not show MLS games, the sport would hardly be able to watch a single game on TV. And do you think the kids and families care what you or I are disenchanted with? If they get a scholarship to play football or basketball, the parents will not have to pay for their college at all. If the kids get into soccer, field hockey or baseball scholarships might not even be possible. And that does not even include the pro potential in those sports that parents seem to also push in this day and age. I see nothing that is changing that feeling towards the major sports and certainly not soccer.

Originally Posted by gordon30307

I don't gamble. Gambling dominates that sport be it fantasy football, parlay cards, bookies etc. I still watch football and I am a Bears Fan and try to watch the game but if I can't I really don't miss it.

Well you are almost alone there. Most Bears fans constantly talk about the games and cannot miss the game. I even know many Bears fans that are women and they live and die with every play. I do know many that play fantasy football, but many do not. And if your argument is that gambling and fantasy are the only reason people watch football, how is soccer every going to compete? Fantasy football has a set system to gain points and judge who had a better game, soccer does not have yard stats or anything to make people judge how well a player did unless you really understand the sport. Basketball, football and baseball all have stat lines you can look at the end of the game and see what that player did. Soccer only has goals or maybe saves and I doubt people will start following a sport just for that reason.

And the part you have still not addressed is why are at the high school level all these kids are not playing that sport at a higher rate? If concussions are the reason, then it has yet to translate. I just do not see kids playing soccer over football anytime soon.

Peace

[gordon30307]

Hi Jeff,

Jeff I'm telling you just drive around on a Saturday there are way way more kids playing Soccer than football. When the concussion stats come out and if it's shown that the long term effects are harmful the Moms won't let their kids play. Incidently I don't particularly care for Soccer. And don't even go there that college athletes aren't exploited. I mean it's a big deal when one of them graduates with a meaningful major. Everyones making money but the athletes.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

Hi Jeff,

Jeff I'm telling you just drive around on a Saturday there are way way more kids playing Soccer than football. When the concussion stats come out and if it's shown that the long term effects are harmful the Moms won't let their kids play. Incidently I don't particularly care for Soccer. And don't even go there that college athletes aren't exploited. I mean it's a big deal when one of them graduates with a meaningful major. Everyones making money but the athletes.

Gordon,

I do not need to drive around any community when I know the culture of football officiating in our area. Almost everyone on a football crew in our area has a guy or several guys that work either college football or youth football over the weekends. And the youth guys make a lot of money working youth games over the weekend as they almost never work one game. They are working multiple levels and several at one setting. I am not seeing any youth soccer being played at the rate I see football games being played. Now that is anecdotal of course, but if all these kids are playing soccer, I go by many fields or colleges and I do not see a soccer game being played. What I do see is adult soccer on those fields and it is not folks that you could say are

You and I both know a certain assignor that assigns basketball that assigns youth football for almost every Pop Warner and Bill George league in the area. I have even worked a few weekends this year myself and for a few years used to work the Chicago Catholic Grade School League that was played in public parks or places where multiple fields were available, they were not playing soccer on those fields and it is not just dads sitting on the sidelines yelling at their kid "Get the ball." Whether there were single mothers or married couples, a lot of women were there watching their kids. I would even say that most of the fans watching were women. I doubt that these were just people in the community coming to watch someone else's kids play a game when the kids can barely run with a helmet on their head.

And this is not something that we cannot figure out. If soccer is becoming the rage, why aren't there more teams and participants in our state or nationwide? A kid that is 6'8 in our country is not playing soccer and being a goalie (like they do in other countries), they are playing basketball and only basketball in many cases. You have to have more evidence than what you see driving. We can measure this.

Peace

[MikeStrybel]

Jeff, you know I coach football and baseball besides umpiring. I am passionate about all three endeavors. My son played soccer while we were abroad. We were stationed in the Philippines for almost seven years and he learned a great deal from the game. He is now our kicker on the youth team and has a 37 yarder to his credit at just 11 years old. Yeah, I'm proud - soccer made him fast and strong while he didn't get dinged up by kids learning how to hit and tackle properly.

That said, soccer is huge in the rest of the world. It is a poor man's sport. You only need one ball and a bunch of kids can have at it. No hoops, shoes or refs needed. Here in the U.S. youth soccer is huge. But like many athletic endeavors, the attrition rate is incredible as kids age. Our football Bantams had 200 kids try out. We had 108 in Feather and less than a 80 for Middle. We could barely field two squads for Heavy this year. As kids get older they lose interest or are driven away by injury, bad coaching or other issues. That happens in almost every sport. Heading back towards the focus of this thread, I still see more adult baseball leagues than football or soccer (except the South of the Border and European leagues). Baseball is still beloved but horribly expensive to pursue. I just received the latest Baseball Express catalogue in the mail. $300 bats and $200 gloves are common place. We will cheer the Bears as they play in London but would rather see the Cubs in the WS!