Balk during full windup?

[frozenrope22]

RHP pitching from full windup. Base loaded. Hands together in front with both feet on rubber. Small step with left foot to side to start his motion. Right pivot foot rotates on rubber. Hands come down and separate. As left foot comes up and body rotates pitcher swings hands back up together. As he strides forward he separates hands again and pitches. All this is in one fluid motion. No stops, jerks or hitches. Is this a balk for double set because hands come together twice? NFHS rules. Umpire warned pitcher and he didn't do it anymore.

[dash_riprock]

He's allowed two pumps.

[bob jenkins]

Legal.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by frozenrope22

RHP pitching from full windup.Base loaded. Hands together in front with both feet on rubber. Small step with left foot to side to start his motion. Right pivot foot rotates on rubber. Hands come down and separate. As left foot comes up and body rotates pitcher swings hands back up together. As he strides forward he separates hands again and pitches. All this is in one fluid motion. No stops, jerks or hitches. Is this a balk for double set because hands come together twice? NFHS rules. Umpire warned pitcher and he didn't do it anymore.

Hard to double set when you're not in the set. Can't fail to come set in the windup either.

[MD Longhorn]

Umpire was wrong. This is one of those "looks funny so I'm calling a balk" moments (although he warned in this case - double bad). It's funny, perhaps... but PU needs to ask himself - exactly what rule was broken. When you can't answer that, looks funny is not a balk.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by frozenrope22

RHP pitching from full windup. Base loaded. Hands together in front with both feet on rubber. Small step with left foot to side to start his motion. Right pivot foot rotates on rubber. Hands come down and separate. As left foot comes up and body rotates pitcher swings hands back up together. As he strides forward he separates hands again and pitches. All this is in one fluid motion. No stops, jerks or hitches. Is this a balk for double set because hands come together twice? NFHS rules. Umpire warned pitcher and he didn't do it anymore.

It is perfectly legal, and this type of delivery with the extra pump was used extensively by pitchers back in the 30s and 40s, as is evidenced on old films.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

He's allowed two pumps.

I've seen this in print, but I'm having trouble finding where it is in the rules. Anybody with a citation?

[MD Longhorn]

Welcome back Steve!

The answer to your question is that it's not there. But it's not prohibited.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by sandiegosteve

i've seen this in print, but i'm having trouble finding where it is in the rules. Anybody with a citation?

6-1-2

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

6-1-2

Oh, in the Calvin Ball, er, NFHS rules. Gotcha! I knew I had seen it someplace.

Does that make the pitcher a "two-pump chump?"

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

It is perfectly legal, and this type of delivery with the extra pump was used extensively by pitchers back in the 30s and 40s, as is evidenced on old films.

To be fair, though, a lot of what pitchers did in the 30s and 40s is illegal now.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by yawetag

To be fair, though, a lot of what pitchers did in the 30s and 40s is illegal now.

Not a lot.

8.05 (a), (c), (e), (f), (g), (h), (i), (k), (l) go back to the late 1800's. (b) goes back to 1900 and (b) to 1920.

(d) was adopted in the 1940's and modified in 1950. The complete stop was inserted in 1950 and in 1964 the one-second requirement was dropped.

So, most of what we have today, we've had for a very long time.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

6-1-2

More than two pumps: NCAA 7-5-b Penalty "Ball" with bases unoccupied. 8-3-k "Balk" with runners on base.

[frozenrope22]

Thanks for the information. I actually looked up old footage of the old time pitchers and saw that they had a similar motion. However, I couldn't find any recent examples so wasn't sure on the rule. Thanks again.

[justanotherblue]

I'm getting old and suffer from ICRS, that said, there was a pitcher a few years ago that used the double pump motion. It may look stange, but legal in all codes.