Help a broadcaster out (re: baseball myths)

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Larry - if he drops it on the transfer it's a valid catch.

From Baseball Digest: " Generally speaking, umpires want to see the player reaching into his glove. Veteran umpire Tim McClleland goes one step further. He says, "Voluntary and intentional release is when a player actually reaches into his glove and is in the act of pulling it out." Frequently, when a fielder is trying to rush a throw after making a catch he will drop the ball but is given credit for the catch because he was in the act of making the transfer which demonstrates complete control."

I take this to mean that for some minuscule fraction of a second, the glove, ball and throwing hand are all in contact at the same time. In the Astros game the VT LF was in the act of bringing his hands together - outstretched glove arm down to his throwing hand when the "sno-coned" ball in the heel of his glove fell out.

[Larry1953]

For example, say F1 is covering first to retire B/R on a grounder to F3. F1 clearly catches the toss from F3, touches the bag with his foot and the runner runs up his back. This causes him to take a couple of stumbling steps and fall. Bracing his fall with both hands causes the ball to come out of his glove on impact. Now, maybe the proper call is no catch/no out, but I doubt there would be much argument from OT if it was ruled an out. Compare this to a stumbling outfielder where it would most definitely be ruled no catch.

[Larry1953]

I don't know how to search for MLB videos, but the play I described is on the highlights clips on MLB.tv. It was Rays @ Astros 6/25/2011. Sam Fuld was F7 and Carlos Lee was the batter. Anyone know how to link to a specific date/game?

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

From Baseball Digest: " Generally speaking, umpires want to see the player reaching into his glove. Veteran umpire Tim McClleland goes one step further. He says, "Voluntary and intentional release is when a player actually reaches into his glove and is in the act of pulling it out." Frequently, when a fielder is trying to rush a throw after making a catch he will drop the ball but is given credit for the catch because he was in the act of making the transfer which demonstrates complete control."

I take this to mean that for some minuscule fraction of a second, the glove, ball and throwing hand are all in contact at the same time. In the Astros game the VT LF was in the act of bringing his hands together - outstretched glove arm down to his throwing hand when the "sno-coned" ball in the heel of his glove fell out.

A voluntary release does not necessarily entail a reach for the ball or simultaneous contact between glove, ball & bare hand.

Example: R2, less than 2 out. F4 dives and backhands a line drive up the middle. As he is still sliding, he flips the ball to F6 in an attempt to catch R2 off his base. F6 does not catch the ball.

The batter/runner is out because F4's release of the ball was voluntary and intentional. The bottom line on determining a catch is secure possession of the ball coupled with control of the body. A voluntary release is proof of such control.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

From Baseball Digest: " Generally speaking, umpires want to see the player reaching into his glove. Veteran umpire Tim McClleland goes one step further. He says, "Voluntary and intentional release is when a player actually reaches into his glove and is in the act of pulling it out." Frequently, when a fielder is trying to rush a throw after making a catch he will drop the ball but is given credit for the catch because he was in the act of making the transfer which demonstrates complete control."

I take this to mean that for some minuscule fraction of a second, the glove, ball and throwing hand are all in contact at the same time. In the Astros game the VT LF was in the act of bringing his hands together - outstretched glove arm down to his throwing hand when the "sno-coned" ball in the heel of his glove fell out.

So you've never seen a fielder flip the ball to another fielder directy from his glove?

You've never flipped a ball from your glove to your hand?

You're using Baseball Digest as a rules source?

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

So you've never seen a fielder flip the ball to another fielder directy from his glove?

You've never flipped a ball from your glove to your hand?

You're using Baseball Digest as a rules source?

There seems to be a subtle difference in the amount of control needed to make a catch when making a base-tag force out and making a catch of a batted ball in flight. The Baseball Digest article also described a play where F7 made a long run to catch a fly just fair. His momentum carried him to the railing. When he braced himself the ball came out of his glove and fell into the stands. B/R was ruled safe and was awarded appropriate bases.

I know it bugs y'all to have sources like BD quoted, but I only used it to cite what a veteran MLB umpire had to say about it. That doesn't seem too terribly out of line.

[Larry1953]

As regards to flip tosses from the glove, sure, you see it all the time. Check out Todd Helton's 40 foot jai alai toss last night ( it went 3 feet over the leaping catcher's glove and cost an additional run. But these are usually on grounders. I don't recall ever seeing an infielder snare a line drive and then do a direct glove flip to a base. If the receiving fielder muffed it and the ball ended up on the ground, an OOO might have cause to rule "no catch" especially if the flip toss was way off the mark.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

As regards to flip tosses from the glove, sure, you see it all the time. Check out Todd Helton's 40 foot jai alai toss last night ( it went 3 feet over the leaping catcher's glove and cost an additional run. But these are usually on grounders. I don't recall ever seeing an infielder snare a line drive and then do a direct glove flip to a base. If the receiving fielder muffed it and the ball ended up on the ground, an OOO might have cause to rule "no catch" especially if the flip toss was way off the mark.

You need to go over to the basketball forum and post with chseagle, who is obviously your twin brother.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

The Baseball Digest article also described a play where F7 made a long run to catch a fly just fair. His momentum carried him to the railing. When he braced himself the ball came out of his glove and fell into the stands. B/R was ruled safe and was awarded appropriate bases.

Of course he was. That's the correct ruling.

What's less clear is wtf your point is. (apologies for the poor grammar)