Home run - missed the plate!!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BretMan

No, I wasn't asking you'd call. I was trying to clarify your own statements (which seem to conflict).

First you said that the runner had to touch the white, then you presented a scenario about "seeing dirt" whereby a runner could touch only the black and you wouldn't call that as missing the plate.

Not what he said (although it's possible that it is what he meant); he said he'd "like" to see dirt. We don't always get what we want, though.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Here is the bottom line for me: I see all kinds of home plates on the crappy high school fields on which I umpire adult ball. If the runner touches any portion of what is passing as home plate in a particular game, that runner has touched the plate, and you can stick your appeal directly. If he misses touching a part of the facsimile of home plate, he may be subject to an appeal.

I would think any umpire would have a difficult time explaining to a manager that the runner did not touch the plate because he only touched a black edge. Talk about OOO.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Here is the bottom line for me: I see all kinds of home plates on the crappy high school fields on which I umpire adult ball. If the runner touches any portion of what is passing as home plate in a particular game, that runner has touched the plate, and you can stick your appeal directly. If he misses touching a part of the facsimile of home plate, he may be subject to an appeal.

I would think any umpire would have a difficult time explaining to a manager that the runner did not touch the plate because he only touched a black edge. Talk about OOO.

So how close is close enough? Do you carry a ruler to measure it?

Do you apply the same criteria to other bases?

If the catcher notices and appeals which team are you screwing?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

So how close is close enough? Do you carry a ruler to measure it?

Do you apply the same criteria to other bases?

If the catcher notices and appeals which team are you screwing?

I use the same criteria at all the bases -- if I don't see dirt between the foot and the base/plate, he touched it.

[dileonardoja]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I use the same criteria at all the bases -- if I don't see dirt between the foot and the base/plate, he touched it.

+1 and to +1 for Sandiego Steve. That is what I was getting at.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

So how close is close enough? Do you carry a ruler to measure it?

Do you apply the same criteria to other bases?

If the catcher notices and appeals which team are you screwing?

I am not sure I understand what you aren't getting. I am using the entire surface that is visible above ground, just as I would any other base. The "black" part of the plate is not to be used for judging balls and strikes (not supposed to be visible), but works quite well for touches (physically there on the field). Often there is no black left on the edges of some hard, slick, above-ground plates. Other times, the plate is old and chewed up, bordering on outright dangerous sometimes. Budget cuts and all, you know.

The black is not supposed to be sticking up to start with. If it is, however, I am treating it as part of the plate when incoming runners are trying not to trip and kill themselves on these treacherous slabs.

Here is what is not "close enough": Not touching the base, as in if I see the foot miss the base, he missed the base. The PHYSICAL base, which is what is on the field, just like I would rule on any any other physical part of the playing field.

And Rich, if you came out and argued very long with me about this at home plate, I would cheerfully jack your rat butt all the way back to New York.

[rcaverly]

The home plate at the high school field I worked today was white on the top surface. It had a black trim piece all around it. The black trim was maybe 3/8ths to 1/2 inch wide (looking down when I swept it.) Almost all of the black trim was visible. The park is one of the better ones in this part of paradise.

[Tim C]

Sorry, this enire thread made my skin crawl . . .

This would neverhave happened in my game . . . even if I took the BR and lead him to the plate.

Someone is proud of being an OOO.

Let them . . .

The rest of us will work real baseball.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Sorry, this enire thread made my skin crawl . . .

This would neverhave happened in my game . . . even if I took the BR and lead him to the plate.

Someone is proud of being an OOO.

Let them . . .

The rest of us will work real baseball.

I guess this mean you (and Steve) would cheat a defense out of a legitimate appeal? And Steve calls ME a rat? Horse****!

Sorry if you're offended. I'd be offended if you refused to call it so I guess we're even.

And Tim (and Steve) . I've had players miss a base. I've had players miss home. The times they got caught I got after them, not the umpire. Why? Because they missed the base. Their fault.

[umpjong]

Just an observation/thought. If the runner touches only the black part of the plate and you absolutely know this as fact, what advantage has he gained by doing this?

What do you do on a game winning score where you have no idea if the runner touches the plate at all? You may scream and yell at the players but their excitement makes it impossible to see the touch. Can you or would you call him out without having any evidence that he didnt touch the plate?

I personally file this under the "sometimes you have to umpire" tab. As JJ likes to say, "dont go looking for buggers"!!!!!!!!

[Tim C]

"I guess this mean you (and Steve) would cheat a defense out of a legitimate appeal?"

Rich, there really is no hope for you. You truly are a rat (species name: 'ratusamongus').

What you see as cheating I see as "game management."

T

[TwoBits]

Whatever you do, don't bring up the black part of a plate on the softball board. I had a situation I posted a couple weeks ago over there where I mentioned the black part of the plate was exposed, and was told that the field was unplayable in that condition!

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Rich, there really is no hope for you. You truly are a rat (species name: 'ratusamongus').

What you see as cheating I see as "game management."

T

And denying the truth is called what?

You are truly arrogant.

All your "game management" does is change which team is ticked off at you. It doesn't manage feces.

[jicecone]

If you do enough games, your going to eventually get the question, "Hey Blue , where is your strike zone, can you explain it?".

Legitimate question.

I used to have a partner who always would reply, "It is whereever I say it is!"

You are paid to make professional determinations about strike zones, touching a base or plate and many other decision's. Based upon your experience you are to make the best decision you can.

Were becoming like the freaking media on this forum, always perfect crtics but, useless as human beings in real life.

If after several years of officiating you can't make a professional decision of when a player has touched a plate or not, sell your dam equipment and do the rest of us a favor and quit officiating.

This applies to new officials coming up also.

[Rich]

I don't get this back and forth. Really, I don't.

Either the player clearly missed the plate or he touched it. No umpire worth his position would uphold a missed base appeal on a runner that "might" have missed the plate.

A toe touching the black? To me, he may as well have placed his size 9 right in the freaking middle of the plate.