Would you take the field with this guy?
 

Would you take the field with a partner who is working the plate? His pants are obviously not plate pants. They are so tight around the legs that they barely fit over his shin guards. Because of this, his pants are about six inches too short. I was not working this game, but I was embarrassed to be watching it.

I'd put him on the bases, then offer to help set him up with the proper gear. If he declines the offer, I will bless him and move on. It is possible that nobody's helped him get the correct gear.

What an arrogant question.
I'm embarrassed a "fellow ump" would post this....

If you are assigned the game as the BU, you do your job on the bases. During your post-game with your partner, you might want to recommend that he get himself a pair plate pants. But under no circumstances would I not umpire the game.

MTD, Sr.

How would you explain to your assignor why you decided to not take the game?

"I didn't like how my partner was dressed."

You'd get laughed at if you tried pulling that in any sport.

Let's not get too hasty here
 

While none of us would not do thew game, the original poster has a point. I've worked with people who made no pretext of looking professional, and it causes nothing but problems.

I worked two basketball games in the past year with a guy who has pants so small that his pocket insides stick out, he has white showing all around his waist. His shirt is wrinkled, his jacket looks like it came from a Goodwill store, and we had nothing but trouble all night long. I even tried to loan him a jacket. Your looks do say something about your competence as an umpire.

IN Baseball it is somewhat different because of the gear a plate man wears, and the fact that there is a distinct difference in PU and BU because of where they work, and what the do during a game. But a bad partner does not make you look good!

You have to say something to him in the postgame. What and how you tell him is something io have no answer to.

Of course this is all true...looking professional is a very important aspect of the job. But the question is whether we would work with an official who looked like the official in the OP.

I can say as a basketball official, I would say the equivalent would be an official wearing shorts and a collared T plus white shoes during a regular season game...and there's no way I would consider not working the game. I'd definitely have a word with the partner when appropriate...and you can bet an assignor is getting a word from me and probably both coaches.

Not twice.

+1

+2

Peace

Why not? If he hustles and gets the calls correct his tight clothes simply smack of a bad economy or lack of polish. Maybe the guy is working games because that is his only source of income. I recall working with a guy who made all his calls with his left hand. Yes, all of them. It wasn't until a week or two later that I learned he had been in a horrific car accident that left him unable to raise his right arm to shoulder height. If the coaches didn't care, I certainly could look past it.

While many go out of their way to shine shoes, press clean trousers, wear the latest gear and show off new Oakleys/UA sunglasses, I'll take the partner who knows the rules and makes the correct call any day.

I'm not going to judge anyone for older uniforms or gear. But it's inexpensive and takes only a short amount of time to shine shoes. 5 minutes with a quick spray of water, some Kiwi, and a brush/cloth makes a pair of shoes look great. Anyone that walks onto a field with filthy shoes takes little pride in his appearance and there's a high positive correlation between people like that and people that don't umpire well. There are exceptions that, mainly, prove the rule.

+10

Ken Kaiser made all of his calls with his left hand for his entire carreer. To quote: "He's just as out with my left hand as he is with my right." :)

I find it somewhat amusing that there are those that feel they have the authority to "overrule" their partner in matters like this, and "put him" at another position.
Yes, the years of experience or age differences can intimidate to get your way, but what if he says No? You actually dont have the power...

I had a varsity game this year where my partner, that I had never met before, asked me if I minded if he wore his catcher shin guards over his pants because he bought them at a thrift store and were too tight in the legs. "How bout I work the plate then", was agreeable to him, (thankfully)..

This thread reminds of the movie "Dumb and Dumber" when the guy appears on the slopes wearing racing apparel. I've worked with a few guys who had all the latest gear, carried it in an MLB roller, possessed a library of JEAPU-J/R-Carl C. books and looked like they stepped out of a 'how to make an umpire' factory. Their gear betrayed their talent and it wasn't fun to see them berated by coaches, players or fans.

I'll take talent over appearance any day. Still, those who write how they would encourage a post game or private phone call to promote a more professional look are on target. Constructive criticism is par and parcel of post game.

Thats funny, because when I was logging close to 200 games a year I used t keep track of all the different excuses I would hear of why people couldn't do the plate. My back hurts, I left my equipment home, I had this team before and we didn't see eye to eye, I hurt my arm, I have a college game tomorrow, I have a college game this weekend, my knee hurts, I like when you do the dish, etc, etc .........................etc.

Another thing to consider
 

This was a high school state semifinal game. His appearance made him look like he was in way over his head. His performance then showed that he was. How he got the assingment, I will never know. He also called the state championship game the next day on the bases. He was constantly out of position in a three man crew.

Why do I have to consider any of that? What does this have to do with your original question of whether we'd work with this guy or not? If I'm working a game with little kids playing or doing a huge state tourney game, there is NO reason why any official should decide to not work the game because of the other official's appearance.

In my state we do not have that choice. We work with who we get no matter what. And I do not get to decide what position I work either. That is assigned that way and I would never make that decision on my own. Now I might say something to those that make the assignments, but I would still work the game no matter what.

Peace

umpire99,

Yes, I would - and have in similar situations.

I have seen umpires "dressed to the nines" who absolutely sucked and umpires who didn't know the first thing about how to dress who were quite good.

As a generalization, I think it's fair to say that generally there's a correlation between umpires who "dress well" and "umpire well". There may be a stronger correlation between umpires who "dress poorly" and "umpire poorly".

When I first started umpiring, I was a bit overwhelmed by the complexity of "umpire fashion".

Some guys are compulsive about appearance, some don't GAS. I try to be in the middle, a bit to the compulsive side. To me, it's part of being courteous and goes to respect.

While "game appearance" certainly influences my "first impression" (...you never get a second chance...) of another umpire, it is not determinate.

JM

I have two experiences.

One day I was to work a game with a young man, 17. As we left his house, his dad asked him if he had all that he needed. He said he did, in the annoyed manner of teenagers. When we arrived at the site and started to dress, he let out an oath and "How does he do that!" He had forgotten his pants.

By chance, since he was a young man, I had a pair of pants that would fit him. (When I started umpiring, only men's pants were available.) They only just fit him. He did a quality job on the plate, we were both complemented by the coaches on the job we did. The coaches were able to look past the uniform.

The second experience was a bit different. I arrived at a Little League game to work with a new partner. He was wearing khaki pants. His shirt hung over his pants. I asked if he wanted the plate. Sure, he let me know he had been umpiring for 30 years. He showed up on the field with shinguards on the outside and hat on backwards. (I did say something about that.) You should understand that around here, Little League umpires hold themselves to a higher uniform standard.

It wasn't how he was dressed that was the real issue. Once he learned how we try to dress a little more professionally around here, he has done the same. No, it was how he umpired. His plate conference was mainly warnings, he signaled strikes with his left hand. He overall sucked. He has repeatedly shown that he is an umpire who has had "one year experience 30 times". He has used his "30 years experience" as a hammer to show how what he thinks goes.

So it's not how my partner is dressed. It's how my partner umpires that counts.

Rita

I have worked with umpires who wore neatly pressed new unis, looked like a million dollars and couldn't umpire worth a nickel.

However, I have never worked with, nor met, a quality umpire who looked like sh!t. I have never seen a truly good umpire who did not understand the importance of appearance.

I'll repeat my answer to the original question...would you work with this guy? Not twice.

My son plays 11U baseball and we've seen our share of umpires who work without mirrors. A couple days ago I saw a guy work a game in a blue polo type shirt, khakis and tennis shoes - he was in his early 50s. I was set to roll my eyes with his every call only to be pleasantly surprised. After the game I told him that he did a great job and asked if he always works in street clothes. He said that he was laid off from his job at Motorola a few months ago and has a daughter who will be attending college in the Fall. He had promised her a graduation gift and took on umpiring to pay for it. He couldn't afford to buy a uniform and this league didn't care. His equipment came out of a shared box at the field. He now has two of my shirts, ball bags, indicator and brush. I don't like working underlevel ball any more but I would work any game with that guy. He knew his stuff and his heart was in the right place. Appearance never trumps talent and spirit.

I often work with one or two of "those guys". They live check to check, working as many games as they can get, to put food on their tables and gas in their cars. Their uniforms are rarely clean, let alone neat. One's hygene is questionable at best. When on the field they work hard, that's all one can ask. It's not that they wouldn't like new base and or plate pants, new shirts and gear, it's a financial crisis they live daily.

The best plate umpire I know shows up in sweats and normally a 6 pack in the trunk. And he actually hustles to help me out, unlike just about every other ump I work with. The old saying is true, you can't judge a book by its cover.

Perhaps it's the level? I have NEVER, in D-111, D-1, JUCO or varsity high school worked with a true quality umpire that did not look the part. If, in any of my conferences or leagues, an umpire showed up like that he would never work again.

I can't believe what some of you experience.

Edited to add: In fact there is a rather famous sketch that Yeast and a couple others put on two or three years in a row at NCAA clinics that addressed this issue. It was somewhat overdone, but it got the point across.

13u and 14u travel. I'm not old enough to do high school and you've probably been umpiring since well before I was born. You have a hell of a lot more experience than me. But it really is incredible, he is probably the most consistent umpire I've ever seen. Coaches almost never ***** at him. I do acknowledge that he should dress properly(as I do), I'm just saying an umpire's dress doesn't necessarily equal what type of umpire they are.

I understand.

We all have different experiences and tend to view the activity from those experiences. I have been fortunate.

It takes only a minute to wash the dirt off the shoes from the previous game.

New uniforms? Sure, not everyone can afford those. But clean ones? I've seen guys pull pants from the trunk with a belt and ball bags still attached. No hangar, no pride.

Of course it's the level of ball being worked. (sigh) The problem here is some want to condemn a guy for not being them. I have worked with plenty of guys who have a clothes rod full of two of every color shirts, a variety of colored undershirts, three or four pairs of pants, four different jackets and various ball bags to match his fashion statement of the day. When on the field, fashion means little. I can just see the coach's report to the NCAA or local high school association. "Bill simply didn't have a clue outh there. He was out of position, hesitated too long on easy calls and acted too quickly on difficult ones that blew up on him. On the plus side, he looked great!"

I worked with one guy who chastised me for mixing brands in my gear. He actually had a problem with my Nike compression shirt not matching my Reebok shoes. (roll eyes and hale the fashion police)

Part of the rating system in Missouri has coaches give scores on appearance.

I'm not saying I like or enjoy working with them, I also agree, washing machines are avaliable just about everywhere. For me it's a matter of personnal pride and more importantly, respect for the game. I don't go have an adult beverage with them after the game. My assignor is well aware of their appearance and keeps giving them games. As I said, for the most part, they work hard on the field. If I was working in a JUCO or above game, I would work the game, call my assignor and refuse to work with him again. I do agree with the upper levels, (I've done some Independent baseball), I would be hesitant to walk on the field with them. Than again, at that level, they wouldn't be there anyway, so it's a moot point.

You surely dont believe this? At the higher levels it means a great deal. To propose that you should only concern yourself with outs and safes is a bit short sighted.

For my education on this subject, can you tell me if those you've seen do that were upper quality umpires?

A problem exists when we try a "one size fits all" solution. Agreed that at higher levels it means much. It can even mean getting assignments or not. But it appears that in some posters' work level there is not such an emphasis on professional appearance.

I can tell you that every upper level umpire I've ever worked with maintain their uniforms in a neat, clean and non-faded state, including their shoes period. "Those guys" are few and far between in most associations. Locally, nearly all maintain neat and clean uniforms. Again, it's respect for the game as well as one's self.

+1

I started when I was in college and did not have a lot of money. Had to take a loan from my parents to buy my equipment. I did buy quality off the bat (no pun intended) and I would clean anything that was dirty or out of place. I hung up all my uniform and made sure they could last without having to wash them all the time. You do not have to have a lot of stuff to just keep it looking good. In all my sports I might go weeks without washing some of my outer uniform. Now baseball is hard to do when you can get muddy and dirty really quick. But I always shined or cleaned off my shoes and I took care of my equipment. I think some guys get away with being sloppy, but that would not fly very long here. You would stick out like a sore thumb with sweats or some wind pants.

Peace

It's a relative thing. I see guys assigned as crew chiefs in sectional games in WI that haven't cleaned their shoes since they bought them. Then again, umpires are assigned directly by the state without ever being seen.

I much prefer working where umpires who run associations decide who to send. Rarely do those groups get it wrong. I worked a big playoff game last year with a guys who worked a total of 5 varsity games and never to that date had worked a varsity game in the big school division. Needless to say, I worked the plate. Before the game I asked him to remove his watch and his shoes were filthy.

What don't I believe? Fashion is not part of the criteria with which I judge umpires. If you do, so be it. I choose to be value ability over being a model.

Read the original post again.

We are not talking about dusty shoes here. As I stated, I will take talent over appearance any day. This original post smacks of generalizing, arrogance and a lack of professional demeanor. I will work with whomever is assigned to that contest. I may not like them, but for a couple hours I am their best friend and support staff. How they look matters little to me, as long as they are safe and up to the job. I once worked a college game with a guy who forgot his base shoes. He worked the whole game (9 innings) in his old +POS low cuts and nailed the calls that came his way, though a step slower for certain. I have also worked games where the guy forgot to grab his plate pants before heading to work (then directly to the game) and looked like a sausage. With the crazy weather we get here, a guys may have multiple plate games in a row and in pretty ugly weather. I'll cut him some slack if he kicks packing them over a call.

In states where appearance is part of the ratings equation, he probably would suffer from those who are short sighted. Here in Illinois, high school contests are supposed to see umpires wearing navy blue shirts (or jackets)with an IHSA patch visible on the left sleeve. I see most preferring black and some don't have the patch. Amazingly, when playoff assignments come around they find their IHSA hats and shirt with patch though. Apparently, the coaches around here who rate them all year care more about quality than following official guidelines. While I would prefer them to be dressed appropriately, my partners were largely exceptional this year. That's a good trade.

Mike,

FYI, Illinois has adopted the "any color, as long as you match" by state adoption option specified in FED. At least for regular season.

The patch requirement has not been waived, though the IHSA patch looks fugly on any color other than Navy, IMO.

Black just looks "badder". Plus, it doesn't make my butt look big! :rolleyes:

JM

Considering that the coaches ratings are only a very small percentage of the overall rating system I am not sure that makes as much of a difference. Then again in all my years of working baseball in this state, I can only think of one guy that did not wear a patch and worked the post season. He did not work the next year (I think someone told on him).

Peace

Missouri needs to take a lesson from Illinois.

Ohio too.

According to the IHSA Case Situation section of our site, that isn't correct.

"4/14 Umpire's uniform

Boys Baseball

Please remember that your first impression as an umpire comes from your appearance. You send a positive message regarding your professionalism when you where the appropriate uniform. This includes your IHSA officials patch or embroidery on your left sleeve of your Navy Blue shirt or pull-over. Please adhere to the uniform expectations in the officials handbook as a baseball umpire."

I spoke directly to Craig about this matter and was told in clear terms, navy blue is the official uniform for regular season baseball, as stated in the handbook. The discussion ensued after someone complained that I wore black to match my partner instead of honoring the uniform code. They sought to get me in trouble and it didn't work. It did make me more mindful of how petty some can be though. My partner didn't typically carry a navy blue shirt or jacket during regular season. The Case Situation went up on April 14 as a reminder to those who weren't following protocol.

I have never seen a black baseball umpire's shirt with IHSA patch on it. They may be out there but I haven't seen them. I do like the black, except on days like today - 92 with a heat index near 100. Light blue will do just fine when the mercury climbs, unless you are working IHSA ball, that is. ;) I know of one guy who breaks out the balloon when it gets this hot. Good umpire, smart guy...I lost a gallon of sweat last weekend. Take it easy, JM!

WI is about as stubborn with the navy blue nonsense.

They say it's because they don't want people to feel they have to go out and buy new stuff to feel they need to keep up with the times. Instead, those of us that work HS and college need to maintain two complete sets of uniforms, including jackets and plate coats to be "in compliance." I love the plate coat, but I'm not buying two of them. So they'll probably get black when I buy one for next season and I'll say it's a really, really dark navy.

We are allowed to wear "light blue" so we wear either the polo blue / black or the new Majestic Pro Sky Blue shirts. Those require a black hat, but again, those are just a dark navy blue if you look closely enough. Fortunately, the one thing WI gets right is that there is no patch and we have a "clean shirt" policy -- no association or state patches anywhere on the uniform.

I work with the same people all season. They are all college umpires, as well, so I would probably never buy another navy anything if they just loosened up the uniform requirements. Till then, I have to keep two sets.

The use of different colored shirts, as long as you match your partner, is still the standard in regular season games in Illinois. This is what we are told to teach at clinics and that has not changed. Navy blue is standard for tournament play. The patch should always be worn on the left shirt sleeve or embroidered.

Jon, I am part of the 'we' who conduct clinics. I posted the official line. Dave or Anthony may have been more tolerant but that is not the case any more. Far too many umpires were working games without our patch and wearing whatever color they thought appropriate. Check the IHSA site with the Case Situations and you will see what is being taught now and what Craig wants.

Craig was at one of the clinics I taught for the IHSA this year. At the other three I saw clinicians preach the official handbook uniform. They did mention what I encountered, if your partner doesn't have the official uniform, do your best to match his for that game but don't make it a habit. Call your partner prior to find out what they will do.

Here is what the current IHSA handbook states about our regular season uniform:

Baseball
1. Heather gray pants;
2. Navy blue coat/jacket/sweater/shirt;
3. Navy blue pullover;
4. Navy blue windbreaker;
5. Navy blue or black socks;
6. Navy or black belt if applicable;
7. Proper umpire’s cap. Cap of plate umpire should have a 1 1/2” or 2 1/8” visor.
Cap of base umpire should have 2 1/2” or 3” visor;
8. Black polished shoes with black laces. The shoes of the plate umpire should
be of the safety variety. The base umpire should wear the ripple or sudden
style sole;
9. Plate umpire needs:
a. ball and strike indicator,
b. small whisk broom,
c. protective supporter and cup,
d. properly regulated watch,
e. chest protector,
f. sturdy mask,
g. shin guards,
h. navy blue or gray ball bag.

I always found 'd' to be misplaced but was told it is there due to lightning and the thirty minute rule. I'm heading to my truck and I have a clock in it that works just fine. Other than that, tourney play requires an official IHSA hat which is not mentioned in the regular season protocol.

Interesting. The Certified IHSA State Clinician at the certified pre-season clinic I attended the year FED changed the language said "any color as long as you match your partner". I've always taken that as "gospel".

I actually have seen a black umpire shirt with an IHSA patch on it, and, I assure you, it looks fugly.

Edited to add....

Kind of ironic that the cover of said Officials' Handbook features a picture of a Base Umpire wearing a black hat and black jacket, eh? http://www.ihsa.org/official/SOH10.pdf

Also, I'd never wear a "penis hat" on the dish and don't believe I've ever seen a Navy belt. (WTF???)

JM

It's a really, really dark navy. Yep, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I am not as offended by the patch on any color of shirt as I wear those patches on all kinds of stripes.

Also I do own a couple of hats that look almost black but were blue. I also am not sure this is a baseball umpire. A couple of things makes it look like this is a softball guy, but I could be wrong. I do not know the individual so I cannot say for sure.

Also the color differences are the gospel, but I do not know why it may not be in the handbook. They have put out rulings on the website saying we can wear any color as long as we match. I have not had a conversation with Craig about this, but I did have a conversation with Dave and that was allowed. I almost wore a plate coat in my plate game at the State Finals and I had both blue and black and I was going to wear the black until some last minute changes in the weather.

Peace

JM - The hat on the cover is is dark blue. I have one and it is that Chicago Bears 'blue-ack'. I don't know the person pictured but he looks to be a softball official. That style jacket is seen on the small diamond.

The clinician was repeating what Dave conceded. Craig has adopted a different strategy and may change his mind. Until then, the policy is as clear as any baseball rule and as resolute. Don't shoot the messenger.

Jeff - If the color things are gospel why did Craig issue a statement declaring otherwise? Dave is no longer in charge. I spoke to Craig about this issue and he is sticking to the handbook policy, as evidenced by the posting on the Official's site.

Putting the IHSA patch on a baseball shirt that isn't navy blue is wrong. Period. Other sports are inconsequential.

I know that during the summer season (run by the Illinois High School Coaches Association) they permit the light blue and white with the patch, but that is solely their call and done so with the temperature in mind. If the coach is in shorts, I'm going to stay cool too.

I agree that matching our partners is important and encourage communication prior to game day. It just seems funny how some guys who only carry black shirts and jackets and wear no patches are upset when passed by for playoff assignments. They are excellent umpires but refuse to comply. Whether stubborn, hurt by the economy or otherwise, I would love to see some of them shining during post season. Guys who make a living enforcing rules but refuse to follow them are lost on me.

Mike,

What about the "heather gray" pants and Navy or Gray ball bag provisions?

(Careful, I've got pictures! ;) )

JM

I sit on a committee that is run by Craig and previously Dave. I have not only had this conversation with him, but he came to speak an association meeting that I am a member when he addressed the issue directly. Actually this information was about the post season which was clear to me, but he has said that we can still wear other colors during the regular season. Also when you go to the State Finals these things are often discussed in detail and this was one of the issues. Which is why if you ever see pictures of me and that crew, we wore the darker grey pants before they were listed in the handbook (2009). If you want me to I can find out or you can come to the summer conference and hear things for yourself (people seem to like to hear things from the horse's mouth more than from another representative) and ask him what the policy is instead of taking my word for it. I know Dave is no longer there, but this policy did not live and die with just Dave. Most of these policies are Board decisions and things the IHSA Board agrees is allowed. Just telling you what I know and I am one of those guys that like to ask questions so I do what is right when I work with someone. Also if a Clinician or State Interpreter talked about this, chances are they know what they are talking about in a policy like this.

I agree. And most of the time someone complains as to why they do not make the playoffs the hardest thing for them to do is look in the mirror. I have no need for those guys and get tired of all the complaining.

Peace

Missouri is stuck in 1989 on lots of different things, including uniform requirements. Watching the state championships in person tells me all I need to know about how seriously MSHSAA takes baseball umpiring.

2009 State Finals 1A/2A Umpires

Peace

Be careful of what you wish for.

Jeff, Jeff, Jeff. You didn't black out the N on your shoes? Shame on you!

Jeff, I am an IHSA clinician. I know what I am talking about.

I spoke directly to Craig about this issue at the beginning of April. The next day, Craig posted the policy I stated above. You cannot get much clearer than that.

If he chooses to issue a different policy next year, so be it. Like the rules, I try not to choose which ones in the past are better than current versions.

We have a separate policy statement regarding which slacks are approved. The charcoal gray slacks will be the mandate soon but are good to go now.

I have a couple grey ball bags and used them in my last Super. When the vendors show up at the IHSA, NCAA or local meetings, I don't see anything but black there. Black was approved for playoffs in IHSA ball, probably because the other colors have limited availability.

I saw the note about white on Jeff's shoes and that is not an issue any longer. From the bigs on down, you will see white on umpire's shoes - usually the bases, but even some plate shoes have the MLB logo in white now. Tourney ball is on TV now and I saw more than a few sporting white on their Reeboks. I prefer all black but wear a 13 so I take what is available and not upcharged for size. The new Reeboks (plate and base) fit the bill this year.

Finals are this week and I know most of the guys working it. We will see white on some shoes, charcoal grey slacks, black ball bags and...navy blue shirts and hats. Hopefully, we will also see some excellent baseball and terrific officiating. I hope IHSA.tv runs it for all to see.

None of this is as bad as Louisiana. They are going with BLAcK shirts next year. It's way TOO hot to begin with here and some neanderthal picks Black.

I am one too in another sport and he was asked this question at an association meeting. I like to get these things clarified as people often think I have some connection with those I work with. I believe this question was asked of him also in April at an association meeting. I might go to the State Tournament this weekend and I will just ask him or Brad when I see them. Because no one I am aware of changed the policy including him. Now you got me curious why different people have different information. And I believe this issue was covered in the Rules video as well.

Peace

Actually that was not a problem before I worked that Finals. I knew several guys that wore shoes with white on their shoes before I got there. The only reason I ever tried this was because of what others did. Those happened to be my most comfortable shoes so that is what I wore. I was prepared to mark the white N out.

Peace

I'm not going to do this with you. I copied what Craig posted on the IHSA website in April. If you choose to believe that those words aren't a change in the policy of 'wear whatever you want, just as long as you match your partner', so be it. Craig wrote those words, he should be 'someone you are aware of'.

The day before speaking with Craig about uniform mandates, I called and talked to Brad. Both stated the official uniform policy from our handbook is in effect. The reasons why some people have different information is because they choose not to read what is on the site, are stubborn or could care less. None of those change the facts that I provided in this thread. I wish you well.

Many guys followed the lead of MiLB, MLB and NCAA umpires. They blacked out the white on their shoes for years. Some of them looked down on those who had white visible and that is why it was a probem. Now that the pros are sporting them it has been a non issue. I could care less what a guy has on his feet, as long as he is safe and able to get on top of the call.

Mike,

Not sure why you are so defensive. I am going to ask because there has been a lot of confusion. I would rather talk to him than others who make claims or say this is the policy or is not the policy. We have the same problem in basketball where clinicians are telling officials different things. I will ask him for clarification and yes I did read the words but did not interpret it other than what happens in the post season when those comments were so close to what we discussed at a meeting. Again I said this was discussed at a meeting, I just want to make it clear for myself.

Just so you know when Dave implemented the policy to use whatever pullover color we wished, it was not reflected in Handbook. ;)

Again I am a three sport officials that belongs to a football crew with 3 football clinicians and we hear different stuff in that sport all the time. And the Black pants were not reflected in the first year that Dave G allowed us to wear them. And we had to get clarification for when to wear those pants from the traditional knickers. In basketball people were running around like chickens with their head's cut off when they started to allow the new patches and there is still confusion if everyone must have the same patches vs. embroidery to work a game. The bottom line is the IHSA in my opinion has done a very poor job over multiple sports to get the word out when changes are being made. This situation is no different and I want to hear it for myself because as JM said there are Baseball Clinicians that have been going around telling those that this is the policy and all you are doing is causing confusion when you say that the policy has changed (not something you are doing on purpose at all BTW). Craig was not clear that the policy was changed and he let us know when the post season was about to start. And it is not like people were doing things well before that time.

Relax dude, it is OK. I just like to ask for myself when I know the people involved. I do the same all the time when we have confusion in my other sports and especially the sport that I hold the same position because there is a lot of misinformation out there and I do not want to assume anything. I will talk to them and I am sure this will be clarified for me. I have a reputation to uphold and I want to do what we are supposed to do.

Peace

I don't either, but some were worried about it and even asked me when those pictures were posted. But I knew before that year what was allowed at least when Anthony was in that position. Again, I like to ask the people that are making the decision so I can reference them specifically. No big deal to me and it was not a big deal at the time.

Peace

Jeff, you stated that you would believe a clinician telling you the facts. Then you found out that I am one of them. I am not claiming anything. I copied and pasted what you and every other baseball official can see on our site. Craig wrote what he did. I merely repeated it.

Seriously Jeff, there is NO MENTION OF POSTSEASON anywhere in his post made in April. If an umpire is confused by that then they really shouldn't be working a varsity schedule.

The handbook states the policy for uniforms. It is the same as Craig's admonition.

Post season uniforms are a whole different matter and not relevant to our discussion.


I was aware of it. Dave is no longer here. Anthony is no longer here. Craig made his clarification after some of us were confused by what we were seeing. I wore what my partners did, which was largely the black shirt and jacket. One day, someone who knows me to be a baseball clinician commented that he was going to rate me poorly because of it. Yes, he was from another group and figured he'd improve his standing by tossing me under the bus. It didn't work.

How are you working to influence the IHSA to change the uniform policy?

Mark this is really not about you. Just stated that I would ask for clarification as Craig appeared to suggest something other than what you are saying here. I just want to know for myself. Is that OK? I would expect others to do the same if I made a claim here. You never have to take my word for it; I have no problem if you contact the people above me to make sure. Sometimes there is miscommunication. It happens often in our position.

OK Mike, it is not a big deal to me. Again I might see them this coming weekend and I will ask. Part of that conversation will have nothing to do with this topic. I had to talk to him about another matter that is related to something this summer and something I am doing for the IHSA. I just will ask about this too. It would not be there first time there is some confusion.


OK, but the policy was stated before Craig got here and it was not clear that this was a total change from previous policy, not when they were selling items this summer that suggested otherwise with their licensed vendor going into this current school year. And if you wore something different than the state wanted you to work that was on you. My point is not to question your position, but to get clarification because your fellow baseball clinicians are telling people other things. I just want clarification so we all are on the same page and I can protect myself in the future from violating a policy. And I will inform him that there is not clear information being distributed. Your name will not be mentioned I promise. I have had several people ask the state based on information I had been told and they confirmed what I said. I am sure you are right here; I just want him to know that people are not following the policy or unaware. Again this is what the summer conference is for and why I want clarification before I say something on the behalf of the IHSA and I am not correct.

Peace

I used to be one of those guys. When I understood and accepted that those playoff assignments were based more on form than substance, I stopped getting upset.

I don't find it necessary to adhere to uniform "rules" because as an independent contractor, what I wear is my province. If the state association wants to prescribe my clothing, they can opt for an employer/employee relationship.

If their choice is to take lesser-quality umpires because they wear blue shirts with patches and have shiny shoes, that says more about them than it does about me.

You make think of people who don't conform as stubborn, but what of the people who makes those "rules?" What are they other than control freaks?

Well that sounds great, but if someone takes your license or stops giving you games at that level, then you will not have to worry about it at all.

Peace

You have a misguided idea of a contractor/employer relationship.

I think Illinois is closer to an independent contractor relationship than other states, based on the assignments I've received there (until they eliminated reciprocity for WI officials and I decided that I'd rather not work there than maintain a full license in both states).

Some states, where they require you join one and only one association that does the hiring and assigning and there's no real ability to go out and work for anyone else? Sure, the state probably passes the buck, but in a lot of those instances, I'm not sure the associations would pass the employer test.

Jeff - My name is Michael, Mike for short. This is silly. I will not comment further about this. I provided the uniform code from our handbook and Craig's Case Situation note on our site from April. You seem to need more clarification than what others require. Wear whatever you want. I'm done trying to relay the facts to you.

Rich - I see no reason to work towards changing uniform policy. While I like the black shirt and jacket, the blue ones are just fine. If the IHSA wants to adopt the light blue / black combo (warm / cold weather) to make guys feel more like professional umpires, great. I enjoy umpiring and the the camraderie that we share. The uniform means little to me. It helps us role play and look presentable but in the end, it is just a costume. I will wear whatever policy dicates and take pride in it.

Just received an email from the head clinician yesterday and he confirmed that any color can be worn in regular season as long as the two shirts match and have the patch on them. Here is a copy of clinicians memo from this spring.

Uniforms

1. Shirts
a. Patches
i. The IHSA Officials patch sewn to left sleeve (approx 2” from shoulder seam) required for all IHSA sanctioned contests
ii. Embroidered IHSA Officials embroidered is an approved option.
iii. Embroidered IHSA logo over pocket is optional
iv. Embroidered patches available from Honigs and Gerry Davis Sports, as well as any local vender who purchases the IHSA license
v. Patches no longer automatically supplied by IHSA upon re-registration but may be purchased from the IHSA for $1.00
vi. US Flag sewn onto right sleeve is optional (should be a reverse field flag for displaying proper flag etiquette).
b. Navy blue pullover with red 7 white stripes is the only official shirt authorized by the IHSA.
i. Shirts of any color may be worn during the regular season only, but only if all umpires are wearing the same colored shirt during any given contest.
ii. IHSA Officials patch or embroidered Officials patch must be worn on left sleeve regardless of shirt color.
c. Only the Navy blue pullover is allowed during post season play from the Regionals thru the State Finals.
2. Pants
a. Either Heather or Charcoal gray pants are allowed. But officials should where the same shade of gray during any given contest.
b. Charcoal gray will become the official color for the playoffs starting in 2011.
c. Charcoal gray will be mandatory in the Super Sectionals and State Finals.

3. Caps
a. Navy blue only
b. With the new IHSA Swoosh logo is recommended
c. Should be a fitted cap (ie., not the adjustable type)

If you were told something different then as Jeff said, he will also ask the question and let them know there is confusion on the issue. I let the head clinician know that there was some confusion also and thus his reply to me.
Really not a big deal, unless the jerk that would consider down grading a fellow official for this gets the platform to do so.

This is exactly the reason I would ask the question to make them aware that there literature is confusing and might need to be cleared up.


I agree, I cannot believe someone would be so shallow in the first place over and issue like this.

Peace

Aren't we a little too sensitive about this issue?

Again I am going to ask as I will ask for clarification and make sure that he is aware that misinformation has been stated by either him or others working for the IHSA. That is all. He is a good guy and I have known him before he was with the IHSA. I also need to talk to him about a completely different issue related to other things I am doing so this would probably be a 2 second conversation at most. I will not even report the findings here as you seem to be so concerned about someone finding out the truth. Look I have been a clinician too for years and I always ask people to go over my head to verify what I tell them. It is not a big deal as I want people to believe the things I am saying and I think they need to know for themselves what is right to do.

Peace

Just to clarify this statement, and assuming Jeff is also referring to the subjects who would stoop to downgrading another official for wearing a different shirt (that matched his partner).

Also clearly a mis understanding has occurred on this issue (shirts) and it will certainly be cleared up for 2012. Again, not a big deal except for those who attempt to benefit from it.

Now that we have all clearly veered away from the actual thread, add me to the ones who would address the sloppiness of another either prior to the game if possible and assuredly after the game if not.

Attended Brad's clinic in March, he stated that during the regular season you could wear whatever as long as you matched.

In the post season, navy only.

Edit: Just saw umpjong's posted. Basically what I said.

The elephant in the room is that navy looks just fugly with charcoal pants.

Talk about a thread that's drifted way OT.

I agree they do not look as good as the other shirts for sure. It is what it is. I wish they would give us an option.

Peace

The IRS disagrees with you.

There is no single dispositive criterion that delineates the difference between an employee and an IC, but the requirement to wear a specific uniform falls squarely on the employee side of the line.

If you don't believe me, ask Federal Express.

A specific uniform? I can buy a navy shirt from at least a dozen vendors. It's not that speciifc.

I do not know what the IRS has to do with this conversation. If you are a contractor in any profession the people that hire you can require you to do some things if they want to continue to hire you. If you are an insurance salesperson and you are a broker for a company, they can require you do follow their procedures or they can hire someone else. So not sure what you are trying to suggest in this situation by saying you can wear what you want. Of course you "can" wear or do anything you want, but that does not mean the people that decide to use you cannot change their mind and hire someone else. And the IRS has nothing to do with that. The IRS only cares how you file the money and what you try to claim on your taxes. But any independent contractor has to follow some rules, procedures or standards.

Peace

Your picture is simplistic, at least for Ohio.

Here, the state offers licenses to officials willing to conform to their policies. If you don't want to conform, you don't get a license. This is neither an independent contractor relationship, nor an employment relationship, but a licensing relationship.

The schools who belong to the state association hire only state licensed officials. Those officials have an independent contractor relationship with the schools, who, as you point out, cannot tell them what to wear.

There are 3 parties, not 2, and two distinct types of relationship. The licensing relationship is the basis of uniform requirements, not the independent contractor relationship.

Maybe he forgot his plate pants. I never have but I would make do with what I had with me. I showed up to work 3 games once and my partner had the blue softball shirt, dark blue dockers, no hat, no ball bag. I found out it was only his 4th or 5th game and we were working a good 16 year old tournament. Hey it wasn't his fault he was assigned the game it was the assignors fault. I did 2 plates and we talked between innings and did some on the job training and got through it.

gordon,

I find your approach both professional and pragmatic.

JM

Ya know I like the Charcoal Gray as opposed to Heather Gray but in order to match my partner I need a pair of Davis, Hoenigs, Official choice and Smittys. They're all friggin different shades. I've given up trying to match my partner. Hey I have an idea lets all wear Heather Gray;)

I do not even know why people tried to match the color/brand in the first place. I bought the pants I liked and if it mattered to you that much, they had to match me. Also had a friend that worked for one of those companies that told me the brand he sold was not the best pair, so I never bought them. And I agree with you, I would almost rather go back to the Heather Gray for that same reason. I mean if I do not have the same brand of shirt should we by the same brand which are also different in color?;)

Peace

Can I wear Combo Pants?

I always say that plate pants are fine for the plate, base pants are fine for the bases, and combo pants are fine for NEITHER. I own none and never will.

Our main problem here is that there is no place to easily change. Bathrooms are far away and if your games are running late...

Wear tights and you can change in the parking lot without embarrassment (or unwanted attention from law enforcement).

It takes seconds to take the pants off and put another on. Trust me, they'll wait for you.

I wear tights, but a different pair on the plate. I change between my car doors, but there's always about 10 seconds where I'm a bit more, um, exposed than I'd like. And the Umpire's Locker Room is too much of a pain to use.

Still, combo pants suck.

On some guys, plate pants are too big -- the combos work here.

On some guys, the base pants are too small -- the combos work here.

For (almost) no one does the combo work for both the plates and the bases.

STL_UMP,

You can, but, based on personal experience, you'll regret it later. :o

JM

Curious... why would that be?