Dumb Athletic Directors.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Publius

My seasons go a lot smoother because I ignore the stupid state "rules". The state association is not my employer, and I don't see any compelling reason to care about what they think I ought to do relative to a contract I have with a school to officiate baseball games at that school.

Schools are association members; officials are not. You don't have to dance to every tune it calls.

When I register with the state association, I'm agreeing to work the associated games in accordance with the association's rules. If you don't like the rules, you are free not to register with them, but you are also giving up working associated games.

The state association here is the regulator and while I don't know about Michigan, I do know Ohio will levy a significant fine if you ignore their regulations.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by RadioBlue

Are you sure you don't have a contract with the state association? Isn't it called a license?

Not in all states... but I just checked mine, and nothing on that license says I have to cowtow to rat AD's asking "non-germaine" questions trying to talk me into a corner or bait me into an argument.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Not in all states... but I just checked mine, and nothing on that license says I have to cowtow to rat AD's asking "non-germaine" questions trying to talk me into a corner or bait me into an argument.

He (radio blue) said he wouldn't even call.

If that's part of the procedure in a state, I'd call. but I also "cowtow to rat AD's asking "non-germaine" questions trying to talk me into a corner or bait me into an argument".

The two ideas can co-exist.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

nothing on that license says I have to cowtow to rat AD's asking "non-germaine" questions trying to talk me into a corner or bait me into an argument.

It's on Missouri's. Word-for-word.

[DG]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

He (radio blue) said he wouldn't even call.

If that's part of the procedure in a state, I'd call. but I also "cowtow to rat AD's asking "non-germaine" questions trying to talk me into a corner or bait me into an argument".

The two ideas can co-exist.

I hope you mean you play a cowtow game with him, because I think it would be impossible for him to bait me, or you, into an argument. If I had to call him he would get yes/no answers to yes/no questions and not much else.

If it is not a yes/no question then ... "Uh, you want to rephrase that question so I can answer yes or no?"

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

And what part of f-bomb don't you and the AD understand? It's a JV game which is an extension of the classroom, so the f-bomb is not allowed nor tolerated. You want to keep splitting hairs about this, Rich?

Yes! Parameters my a$$. If I get an AD or principal who doesn't know what an F-Bomb is, he shouldn't have the job. If he asks me a loaded question like that, I will cheerfully let him know that it is none of his concern just what the criteria is that I use to eject. In the case of his little snot that I ejected, hey, he said something to get ejected. Period. Read my report for further detail. Our assignors here back us up with ADs and other school personnel on matters like these, and take zero crap from them.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If I am going to do the games at any level, I am going to follow all their procedures to the best of my ability. If you cannot do that, do not take the game. When you accept a contract, you accept the responsibility of what is being asked of you. Of course you do not have to follow those rules, but why give someone a chance to say you did not follow the procedures? You do not do this, they will claim you do not do other things just as fast.

Peace

It's a two-way street. If they want to insist I'm an IC, they don't get to tell me how to accomplish a task.

My game contract is not with the state association. They insist officials are independent contractors, then thrust an adhesion contract (registration) in your face that violates many of the tenets of an IC relationship.

I administer games in accordance with the PLAYING rules. Uniforms, mechanics, and post-game administration are the province of the IC. If they want to dictate otherwise, they can adhere to ALL the tenets of the employer/employee relationship.

Another two-way street is, "If you don't like how I administer games, don't offer me games." I make myself available to work; I don't ask for games. Schools don't have to offer them via their designated assignor, but they do.

All I'm saying, Rut, is that we aren't their employees, so if they want us to be ICs, I'm going to behave like one, regardless of their "contracts," the terms of which I have no say.

They can't have their cake, and eat it, too. If you allow that, you do yourself and your fellow officials no favors.

Many officials will polish any apple, shine any shoe, and kiss any a$$ for a shot at the state finals. That's short-sighted. We aren't the whipping boys of the state association or the schools. Too many are willing to be treated as such, and that's why we are.

They like to tell us how valued we are, but when push comes to shove, they'll throw us under the bus.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Publius

It's a two-way street. If they want to insist I'm an IC, they don't get to tell me how to accomplish a task.

My game contract is not with the state association. They insist officials are independent contractors, then thrust an adhesion contract (registration) in your face that violates many of the tenets of an IC relationship.

I administer games in accordance with the PLAYING rules. Uniforms, mechanics, and post-game administration are the province of the IC. If they want to dictate otherwise, they can adhere to ALL the tenets of the employer/employee relationship.

Another two-way street is, "If you don't like how I administer games, don't offer me games." I make myself available to work; I don't ask for games. Schools don't have to offer them via their designated assignor, but they do.

All I'm saying, Rut, is that we aren't their employees, so if they want us to be ICs, I'm going to behave like one, regardless of their "contracts," the terms of which I have no say.

They can't have their cake, and eat it, too. If you allow that, you do yourself and your fellow officials no favors.

Many officials will polish any apple, shine any shoe, and kiss any a$$ for a shot at the state finals. That's short-sighted. We aren't the whipping boys of the state association or the schools. Too many are willing to be treated as such, and that's why we are.

They like to tell us how valued we are, but when push comes to shove, they'll throw us under the bus.

It sounds like you are more worried about kissing someone's *** than you are doing your job. Yes I am an independent contractor, but that means that I do not work for the school or the state. But if I am a contractor in any other profession, it is possible that you will be governed by rules or laws that have nothing to do with who I work with or under. If you are an insurance agent, , you might not be an employee for a company that you sell products for, but if you want to keep your license you better follow the procedures that are asked of you or in those cases you might be fined or go to jail. Now it is not that series as an official, but if you do not want to play by their rules, then do not take the games. This has nothing to do with going to the state tournament or not. I know if a league which you claim you work more than HS wanted you to do something, and if you did not do what they asked you might not be able to work games. I do not see the big deal.

Peace

[FTVMartin]

MHSAA does not require a phone call any longer. Simply log on to MHSAA.com and fill out the officials report. The state and both schools are notifed.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Publius

It's a two-way street. If they want to insist I'm an IC, they don't get to tell me how to accomplish a task.

My game contract is not with the state association. They insist officials are independent contractors, then thrust an adhesion contract (registration) in your face that violates many of the tenets of an IC relationship.

I administer games in accordance with the PLAYING rules. Uniforms, mechanics, and post-game administration are the province of the IC. If they want to dictate otherwise, they can adhere to ALL the tenets of the employer/employee relationship.

Another two-way street is, "If you don't like how I administer games, don't offer me games." I make myself available to work; I don't ask for games. Schools don't have to offer them via their designated assignor, but they do.

All I'm saying, Rut, is that we aren't their employees, so if they want us to be ICs, I'm going to behave like one, regardless of their "contracts," the terms of which I have no say.

They can't have their cake, and eat it, too. If you allow that, you do yourself and your fellow officials no favors.

Many officials will polish any apple, shine any shoe, and kiss any a$$ for a shot at the state finals. That's short-sighted. We aren't the whipping boys of the state association or the schools. Too many are willing to be treated as such, and that's why we are.

They like to tell us how valued we are, but when push comes to shove, they'll throw us under the bus.

I'm sorry to say, but you are just wrong here.

To get the contract in the first place you have to be a registered official. To be a registered official, you have to agree to abide by the bylaws of the association.

If you register as an official and yet refuse to conduct yourself according to the association's rules and regulations, you have failed to conduct yourself with integrity.

There is nothing inconsistent here with an independent contractor relationship.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by FTVMartin

MHSAA does not require a phone call any longer. Simply log on to MHSAA.com and fill out the officials report. The state and both schools are notifed.

You are incorrect. I received a telephone call on Tuesday afternoon from MichiganHSAA Assistant Director Mark Uyl. He wanted to make sure I had contacted the Athletic Director the first school day after the ejectioni, because the school's AD had contacted him to request information about how to complete the his school's game report response.

MTD, Sr.

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

He (radio blue) said he wouldn't even call.

If that's part of the procedure in a state, I'd call. but I also "cowtow to rat AD's asking "non-germaine" questions trying to talk me into a corner or bait me into an argument".

The two ideas can co-exist.

I don't recall ever saying I wouldn't even call.

[MikeStrybel]

Mark's responses have always struck me as reasoned. I'm not sure what trouble he could have been in had he simply answered the AD's question with a "yes" and moved to terminate the call. I recognize that had he answered in the negative the AD had baited him, but it's not like the AD can prove he doesn't eject when he hears a player curse at him. It seems like the AD could have been shut down right there.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Mark's responses have always struck me as reasoned. I'm not sure what trouble he could have been in had he simply answered the AD's question with a "yes" and moved to terminate the call. I recognize that had he answered in the negative the AD had baited him, but it's not like the AD can prove he doesn't eject when he hears a player curse at him. It seems like the AD could have been shut down right there.

Probably because "Yes" was not the right answer.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by RadioBlue

I don't recall ever saying I wouldn't even call.

Maybe I have your post's confused with someone else's. If so, I apologize.