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Quote:

Originally Posted by DG (Post 758195)

OK, infield is drawn in on the grass, and batted ball hits runner in the dirt, no chance for any infielder to have a chance because all are in the grass. Runner did not run into it intentionally. What is call?

OBR: Out. A runner has the obligation to avoid the ball. Exception: THe ball goes immediately past the fielder. Exception to the exception: Another fielder is in position for a play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DG (Post 758195)

JM, Bob Jenkins, and I posted tha answer above.

Tt reiterate:

OBR - Out, dead ball, BR to 1B, others return.

Fed and NCAA - live ball, play the bounce.

"On the other hand, if a batted ball goes through or by an infielder (other than the pitcher) without touching the fielder and then strikes a runner immediately behind the infielder, the umpire must determine if another infielder has a chance to make a play on the ball. If the umpire determines another infielder does have a chance the runner is out. If the umpire determines another infielder does not have a chance, the ball is alive and in play".

Are you saying that if a runner is struck by a ball behind infielders but not immediately behind an infielder he is out? If so I have never seen or heard that interpretation so new one on me.

DG,

That's correct.

The point is that the defense (not just the infielders) have the right to an unhindered opportunity to field a fair batted ball.

This is what the MLBUM has to say on the subject:

Quote:

The interpretation to be made with regard to the phrase "a fair ball goes through, or by, an infielder, and touches a runner immediately back of him" (Official Baseball Rules 7.09(m) and 5.09(f)) is that this refers to a ball that passes through the infielder's legs, or by his immediate vicinity, and strikes a runner directly behind the infielder.

....

(5) Runners on first and second, both runners stealing. Batter shows bunt, the first and third basemen move in, and the shortstop moves to cover third. The batter swings at the last minute and hits a ground ball in the direction of the shortstop position. However, the shortstop has
moved to cover third base, and no one is in position to field the ball. The ground ball strikes the runner advancing from second base.

Ruling: Runner from second is declared out for being struck by a batted ball. The batter-runner is placed at first base. The ball is not considered to have gone through or by an infielder in this play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DG (Post 758216)

Are you saying that if a runner is struck by a ball behind infielders but not immediately behind an infielder he is out? If so I have never seen or heard that interpretation so new one on me.

Yes. They've said it numerous times now. Shouldn't be a new one on you with your 3500 posts... this has been the rule for as long as I can remember.

The example I was given (long ago) was:

R2, left-handed pull hitter up. Defense puts 3 infielders on the right side, leaving only F5 in normal position. Batter hits a hard ground ball that hits R2 a few steps from 2B. Ruling: R2 is out, even though nobody had even a remote chance to field the ball.

Does anyone know: has NCAA's ruling always been contrary to OBR, or it is something relatively recent?

Quote:

Originally Posted by greymule (Post 758323)

Does anyone know: has NCAA's ruling always been contrary to OBR, or it is something relatively recent?

Also, can anyone provide a rationale why NCAA/FED is different from OBR in this case? The only thing I can come up with is that the baserunners aren't supposed to be as skilled maybe and so they get a break (i.e., may not be as skilled at avoiding batted balls) whereas MLB players are supposed to be?

I realize this is like asking "Why is water wet?" in that it doesn't really matter, the rule is the rule. Just curious more than anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM) (Post 758218)

Thanks. I can't say I recall this ever coming up, but now I know there is a diff, OBR vs. FED.