It came to me in a dream
 

No, really. This didn't actually happen in a game but I did dream it and want to be sure I get it right in case it actually happens one day.

As a reminder, I coach 12U travel baseball and play under a mish-mash of rules depending on the weekend tournament we're playing in.

Situation is R1 and R3 with infield drawn inside the baseline to try and cut down R3 at home. R1 is stealing with the pitch and the BR hits a line shot that hits R1 as they're running toward 2B. Ball rebounds off R1 but by the time F4 picks it up R1 is now R2, BR is R1, and R3 has scored. This is where I woke up.

In reading Fed 8-4K is says:

Runner is out when is contacted by a fair batted ball before it touches an infielder, or after it passes any infielder, except the pitcher, and the umpire is convinced that another infielder has a play.

Since no other infielder had a play (they were playing in and the ball struck R1 behind them) and it passed an infielder would this be a play on?

Yes, I'm also aware I need to find other activities to liven up my dream-world. Right now this is what I'm dealing with however!

Play on. Or more than likely, fix my partner's brain fart because he kills the play :rolleyes:

-Josh

I suggest that you eat more pizza and drink more beer before bed so you dream of more important things - like BEER!

Rufus,

In FED it's "live ball, play the bounce".

Under OBR, the ball is dead, the R1 is out, the BR is awarded 1B, and the R3 is back on 3B.

JM

What JM said . . .

Yep -- and NCAA is the same as FED, here.

Nothing to add rule-wise. For future reference, Runners do not change their designations during a play, and batter becomes BR, but remains BR during the play. Things get a mite confusing if you change their designations every time they advance. So, "R1 has become R2" should just be "R1 has reached 2nd base"... they are still R1 until your play is over.

Just a little nit.

JM
Thanks for this. I'm looking at an (older) copy of OBR 7.08 and found this:

Any runner is out when—He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an infielder. The ball is dead and no runner may score, nor runners advance, except runners forced to advance. EXCEPTION: If a runner is touching his base when touched by an Infield Fly, he is not out, although the batter is out;

Since in my situation R1 was hit after it passed the drawn-in infielders would he still be out under OBR? Not trying to abush, just trying to understand. Thanks.

MBCrowder - noted and thanks for the clarification

"passed an infielder" in this instance means "goes immediately by or through the infielder." IOW, if the runner could reasonably expect the fielder to make a play, he's not out just because the fielder didn't and the runner was (nearly) directly behind the fielder.

but, if the ball goes between the two fielders, then the runner can see the ball and is expected to avoid it.

New one on me. You mean I am supposed to judge something other than whether the ball passed infielders and they had their chance? You think I should judge that R1 should have seen the ball and avoided and because he did not ball is dead and he is out?

For OBR, you must judge if the ball was within "a step and a reach" of a fielder. If so, then the runner is protected. If not, then not.

You missed the point. The theory is that the runner has a reasonable expectation that the fielder will make a play so he need not be expected to avoid the ball. Anytime else, he must avoid the ball.

You only have to judge if it passed through or in immediate reach of the fielder.

OK, infield is drawn in on the grass, and batted ball hits runner in the dirt, no chance for any infielder to have a chance because all are in the grass. Runner did not run into it intentionally. What is call?

Very similar to what Evans teaches. He turns it around and puts the emphasis on when it's the runners obligation to avoid the ball.

I think that's for whether a fielder is protected after bobbling the ball, not for whether the ball wen "past" him.

OBR: Out. A runner has the obligation to avoid the ball. Exception: THe ball goes immediately past the fielder. Exception to the exception: Another fielder is in position for a play.

JM, Bob Jenkins, and I posted tha answer above.

Tt reiterate:

OBR - Out, dead ball, BR to 1B, others return.

Fed and NCAA - live ball, play the bounce.

"On the other hand, if a batted ball goes through or by an infielder (other than the pitcher) without touching the fielder and then strikes a runner immediately behind the infielder, the umpire must determine if another infielder has a chance to make a play on the ball. If the umpire determines another infielder does have a chance the runner is out. If the umpire determines another infielder does not have a chance, the ball is alive and in play".

Are you saying that if a runner is struck by a ball behind infielders but not immediately behind an infielder he is out? If so I have never seen or heard that interpretation so new one on me.

DG,

That's correct.

The point is that the defense (not just the infielders) have the right to an unhindered opportunity to field a fair batted ball.

This is what the MLBUM has to say on the subject:

JM

Yes. They've said it numerous times now. Shouldn't be a new one on you with your 3500 posts... this has been the rule for as long as I can remember.

The example I was given (long ago) was:

R2, left-handed pull hitter up. Defense puts 3 infielders on the right side, leaving only F5 in normal position. Batter hits a hard ground ball that hits R2 a few steps from 2B. Ruling: R2 is out, even though nobody had even a remote chance to field the ball.

Does anyone know: has NCAA's ruling always been contrary to OBR, or it is something relatively recent?

Also, can anyone provide a rationale why NCAA/FED is different from OBR in this case? The only thing I can come up with is that the baserunners aren't supposed to be as skilled maybe and so they get a break (i.e., may not be as skilled at avoiding batted balls) whereas MLB players are supposed to be?

I realize this is like asking "Why is water wet?" in that it doesn't really matter, the rule is the rule. Just curious more than anything.

Thanks. I can't say I recall this ever coming up, but now I know there is a diff, OBR vs. FED.