"Slinging the bat"

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

I already cited the relevant rules for OBR. In Fed, 3-3-1c or m discusses bat throwing and pertinent penalties. I like what Florida says about Unsportsmanlike Conduct.
From the FHSAA: "7.2 UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT
7.2.1 “Unsportsmanlike Conduct” Defined. A student who commits an act of malicious and hateful nature toward a contest official, an opponent or any other person attending an athletic contest shall be guilty of unsportsmanlike conduct. Such acts may include, but are not limited to, profanity, striking or threatening a contest official; physical contact with an opponent which is beyond the normal scope of competition; spitting on a contest official or opponent; directing gender, racial or ethnic slurs toward a contest official, an opponent or any other person attending an athletic contest; or other such acts deemed to be unacceptable conduct according to the principal of the member school the student attends or this Association."

I don't know if other states have taken this step but it would be interesting to read how they define it.

Originally, this definition did not have "but are not limited to" in it. I was out of country at the time but am told that phrase was a must to allow the complete discretion of sporting officials to rule on UC.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Mike,

I must be reading a different thread than you. I just wnet back and re-read the first page of this thread, and the OP was "met with" an opinion, a "dead-on" rule cite, followed by an explanation.

There was a "good natured ribbing" post, then a troll interjected w. some tangential comments designed to stir up argument. The OP than asked for further clarification and received it.

I'm not sure which part of that you consider "belligerent" (other than possibly the troll).

JM

Thanks Coach.

I will point out that several posts were deleted in this thread well before the comments from Mike and STB. Maybe they read them before they were deleted.

And, we all have different thresholds for what should be allowed, and it's human nature to think our own actions are "more okay" than others. So, we react mopre when our own posts get deleted. :shrug:

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Good Lord, man, if you don't understand the absolute power of UC, then there is nothing I can do to assist you.

Maybe that absolute power is corrupting you. You may have the right to do this, but that doesn't necessarily make it the right thing to do.

An overly-officious application of the absolute power of UC..."Hey, you, over there in the dugout! I don't like the way you're spitting those sunflower seeds all over the place. Somebody has to clean that up! Mighty unsporting of you to leave a mess like that on my field. You're ejected!".

Silly? Yes! But clearly within the scope of any rule that is both absolute and at the umpire's whim. It's not an example of any documented interpretation, or conventional practice, or a recommended way to handle this. And neither is an ejection for carelessly discarding a bat in an OBR game.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Thanks Coach.

I will point out that several posts were deleted in this thread well before the comments from Mike and STB. Maybe they read them before they were deleted.

And, we all have different thresholds for what should be allowed, and it's human nature to think our own actions are "more okay" than others. So, we react mopre when our own posts get deleted. :shrug:

No Bob, you are wrong. I can still see posts from members who, rather than answer the question posed, take it upon themselves to insult the person seeking knowledge. You seem content to tolerate 'big dog' behavior and ridiculous baiting/condescension from some members here. That was what I spoke to. I have never once complained that a post I made was deleted or edited. I have requested consistency from you in handling those who have nothing to offer other than belittling. I have worked with you and know you would never tolerate a coach who behaved so poorly. Neither of us would want to work with a partner who insulted us at every turn. I expect all to comply with the rules.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

No Bob, you are wrong. I can still see posts from members who, rather than answer the question posed, take it upon themselves to insult the person seeking knowledge. You seem content to tolerate 'big dog' behavior and ridiculous baiting/condescension from some members here. That was what I spoke to. I have never once complained that a post I made was deleted or edited. I have requested consistency from you in handling those who have nothing to offer other than belittling. I have worked with you and know you would never tolerate a coach who behaved so poorly. Neither of us would want to work with a partner who insulted us at every turn. I expect all to comply with the rules.

Bob Jenkins wrote: "We all have different thresholds for what should be allowed..."

Well, heck, there is what I have been saying all along.

I believe Bob is using his powers of forum moderation as a lesson to those who can't grasp the absolute powers that lie within UC.

Bob can determine what is or is not UC on TOF and apply no penalty, some penalty or severe penalty.

Same with UC on the field.

Any further questions regarding UC should be addressed to Bob Jenkins.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

No Bob, you are wrong. I can still see posts from members who, rather than answer the question posed, take it upon themselves to insult the person seeking knowledge. You seem content to tolerate 'big dog' behavior and ridiculous baiting/condescension from some members here. That was what I spoke to. I have never once complained that a post I made was deleted or edited. I have requested consistency from you in handling those who have nothing to offer other than belittling. I have worked with you and know you would never tolerate a coach who behaved so poorly. Neither of us would want to work with a partner who insulted us at every turn. I expect all to comply with the rules.

You seem to spend a lot of time trying to tell others how to write or what to say, or otherwise judge someone else's posts' appropriateness. And not a whole lot on the actual situation or on helping the discussion along. I believe 3 of your 20-something posts in this thread have even a morsel of constructive umpiring advise. You're becoming one of the worst offenders of that which you decry.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

You seem to spend a lot of time trying to tell others how to write or what to say, or otherwise judge someone else's posts' appropriateness. And not a whole lot on the actual situation or on helping the discussion along. I believe 3 of your 20-something posts in this thread have even a morsel of constructive umpiring advise. You're becoming one of the worst offenders of that which you decry.

I only asked for professional demeanor. If a member asks for help and all you can do is insult him or her for not knowing the answer that is sad. I remind you that since my return to this forum, I have continuously tried to be pleasant and professional. If I post a rule interp or relate personal experience, I was met with comments like, "When you have a thousand posts you will be more believable." or "Get off your high horse." I can't imagine that any of you would have the courage to insult another umpire from your association for asking an honest question. Is it too much to ask for you to be civil?

[jophyal]

I feel more like a regular... I think I got my first message deleted and I feel like a right of passage has been bestowed upon me.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jophyal

I feel more like a regular... I think I got my first message deleted and I feel like a right of passage has been bestowed upon me.

I've lost track of how many posts I've had deleted. I get carried away sometimes.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I've lost track of how many posts I've had deleted. I get carried away sometimes.

Until a new "state clinician" showed up, I hadn't had a post deleted, much less had a "time out." I guess I got carried away as well. I'll have to go back to controlling that which I can control and not give a fudge about how weird the world can be.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

No Bob, you are wrong. I can still see posts from members who, rather than answer the question posed, take it upon themselves to insult the person seeking knowledge. You seem content to tolerate 'big dog' behavior and ridiculous baiting/condescension from some members here. That was what I spoke to. I have never once complained that a post I made was deleted or edited. I have requested consistency from you in handling those who have nothing to offer other than belittling. I have worked with you and know you would never tolerate a coach who behaved so poorly. Neither of us would want to work with a partner who insulted us at every turn. I expect all to comply with the rules.

I'm going to side with you on the post count issue, sort of. There are forum members with 200 posts whom I respect immensely. There are forum members with 10k posts whom I think are morons. More posts may help to determine whether someone is an idiot or not, but post count isn't in and of itself definitive.

As for the high horse comment; the initial one was made when you said complaints from coaches are virtually always the umpire's fault. That was deserved, IMO.

When I said it, however, it was gratuitous and I apologize.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm going to side with you on the post count issue, sort of. There are forum members with 200 posts whom I respect immensely. There are forum members with 10k posts whom I think are morons. More posts may help to determine whether someone is an idiot or not, but post count isn't in and of itself definitive.

As for the high horse comment; the initial one was made when you said complaints from coaches are virtually always the umpire's fault. That was deserved, IMO.

When I said it, however, it was gratuitous and I apologize.

I never wrote that complaints from coaches are virtually always the umpire's fault. I did note that if all an umpire sees are coaches who complain they may want to invest in some introspection. I have kicked calls and had coaches bite. I deserved the response but learned how to handle their actions. I can bite back too.

I appreciate the apology. It is accepted and I hope we can begin anew. This isn't my first rodeo and I have endured my share of lumps, just not from fellow umpires. Thank you for being civil.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by jophyal

I feel more like a regular... I think I got my first message deleted and I feel like a right of passage has been bestowed upon me.

Yes, only Bob is exempt from deletion.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I've lost track of how many posts I've had deleted. I get carried away sometimes.

Me too. Probably this one too.

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

The preponderance of sporting officials I see fall into the category of "easy way to the fee", i.e. that are not interested in using the rules to cover issues that aren't defined by some interp they can lay their lazy hats on. God forbid they protect a catcher from getting his clock cleaned by using UC which clearly allows for that use. God forbid they use their heads for something more than a place to strap their mask on.

No, easy peasy money and this forum is full of easy peasy types.Which is the very reason this forum has so few new posters. The word is out, plain and clear, the reputation is set in concrete and new posters typically get rung up by the forum Big Dogs and they take a hike. There are too many forums where the moderation is clear and even handed and don't have the reputation of one-sided, "in crowd" slanted moderation.It's forum talk and it's the second part of the awful reputation this place has.

If this place has an awful reputation for any reason, which I don't believe is the case, it is because of trolls and ne'er-do-wells that only like to come here and criticize and belittle other posters, and disagree with every logical post on the forum.

For instance, the sweeping, unfounded generalization about lazy umpires and easy peasy types, of whom and of which I am not familiar. I don't not know of anybody with whom I umpire, or any regular poster (the ones who are Simply Not Trolls) on this forum who would take the lazy way out on any calls. That would not be tolerated in this absolute blast furnace of baseball which is all of SoCal. We play a high caliber of ball out here, with umpires to match, higher than apparently you have been witnessing where you're at. We are required to know and enforce the rules for whatever set of rules are being used at the time. It's called umpiring.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

I never wrote that complaints from coaches are virtually always the umpire's fault. I did note that if all an umpire sees are coaches who complain they may want to invest in some introspection. I have kicked calls and had coaches bite. I deserved the response but learned how to handle their actions. I can bite back too.

You're right, but I was wrong about the precise comments that spurred the response. I'll say this, your comments in that particular thread came across to virtually everyone as condescending and overly presumptuous. You may not have felt that way or intended them that way, but that's how they were received (almost universally).

So, given your statement above, wouldn't that call for some introspection?

[MikeStrybel]

I work with a few guys who post here. Most of them laugh at how my posts are received. Some have told me to forget about changing the attitude around here and just accept the fact that people need to vent online because we have to be better than that on the field. A couple others have stated that if I want civil discourse I should try another site. I will keep trying to be professional with my posts and hope that my 'cynicism' may rub off on some. The internet eliminates tone and sincerity from most of our posts.

I hope you understand now that I do not pretend to be better than anyone else here. I am not a white hat wearing do gooder. Six plus years living in Asia humbled me and taught lessons about community. Umpires there conduct themselves with dignity and are actually revered. They are held accountable for their conduct away from the game. I respect that system. I know I am a better umpire for having lived that experience. I hope it makes me a better person too.

Thanks again for being civil. I see 17,851 posts and can see you enjoy the board. For what it's worth, I do too.