Originally Posted by pastordoug (Post 731032)

How about FED ruling? 7-4-1e "an attempt to bunt on thrird strike is a foul." Same play mentioned in OP but following FED you have an out with dead ball... Some of us still doing HS :) but always trying to learn.

Originally Posted by JerzeeRef (Post 730503)

Page 29, College Baseball Rules Study Guide.

Batter is out:

D. With two strikes, he bunts foul (7-11i). If the ball is caught in flight, it remains live; otherwise the ball is dead immediately.

Originally Posted by jkumpire (Post 731217)

Sir,

What is the College Baseball Rules Study Guide? Where may I purchase this, or read it on the 'net if it exists there?

Thank you

Originally Posted by jkumpire (Post 731217)

Sir,

What is the College Baseball Rules Study Guide? Where may I purchase this, or read it on the 'net if it exists there?

Thank you

Originally Posted by JJ (Post 731352)

www.referee.com/magads/2011BS or 800-733-6100

JJ

Originally Posted by jkumpire (Post 731368)

Link does not work!

Originally Posted by pastordoug (Post 731032)

How about FED ruling? 7-4-1e "an attempt to bunt on thrird strike is a foul." Same play mentioned in OP but following FED you have an out with dead ball... Some of us still doing HS :) but always trying to learn.

Originally Posted by Rich Ives (Post 729542)

Absolutely, positively, incorrect. The definition of foul is independent of whether or not it was caught. That's why the dead ball rule says a ball is dead if a foul ball is not caught. It also covers why a caught foul ball is live. It's because a foul can be either caught or not.

Originally Posted by dash_riprock (Post 729567)

What is the mechanic for a fair tip?

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike (Post 732146)

The definition of "foul" okay, I see your angle. however none of my OBR based literature offers a definition of FOUL. so don't know where you going with that?

However the OP and my statements concern a "foul ball".

The definition of "foul ball" can very well be dependent on whether caught or not. In the OP as I see the intent, is 100% "dependent" on whether caught or not.

OBR Definition:
A FOUL BALL is a batted ball that settles on foul territory between home and first base, or between home and third base, or that bounds past first or third base on or over foul territory, or that first falls on foul territory beyond first or third base, or that, while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or player, or any object foreign to the natural ground.

The definition of a catch however, has no dependence on fair or foul.

OBR Definition:
A CATCH is the act of a fielder in getting secure possession in his hand or glove of a ball in flight and firmly holding it; providing he does not use his cap, protector, pocket or any other part of his uniform in getting possession.

Originally Posted by Rich Ives (Post 732173)

1) You said none of the literature defines foul then you quote the rule that defines it.

Reminds me of an ole song: here we go roun in circles, see the fly way up in the skyyyy.. I made that part up.

SLAS: NO, I clearly quoted the definition of a "FOUL BALL", as I stated, there is no such beast as "foul". Where I think you and I are on a disconnect is; I use the "definitions" verbatim and firmly believe everybody should.
You would say; a ball hit over foul territory is a foul ball no matter what happens to it.
I say a ball over foul territory that is touched, is a foul ball and is dead and one that is caught over foul territory is a "caught fly ball".

2) You said fair/foul can be dependent on caught or not - but you quoted the rule which makes no mention of the location of the ball.

SLAS: No I clearly said a "foul ball" AND I quoted "a catch", because it is NOT dependent on fair or foul, that's what I was trying to get across. A fly ball that is caught is never foul, or at least there is no worth in noting it either way, so why bother? Or should we refer to the scorekeepers, maybe they care? Oh wait, except; U-Trip SP SB: With one strike if the batter hits a second foul ball, the ball is dead and no runners may advance, except at the Majors Division. Nat. Interp.


Lets look at the relevant part:

A FOUL BALL is a batted ball . . . that, while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or player, or any object foreign to the natural ground.

SLAS: Okay.

Was the ball over foul ground - yes.
SLAS: WE are clearly in total agreement here, all right!!

Did it touch a player while there? - Yes

SLAS: UH-OH! Here we will disconnect again. NO the ball was not "touched" by a player, it was caught by a player. Hence why, in my original post I tried to clarify that, touch and catch are only used in the same sentence when; considering the legality of a runner re-tagging on a ball which is eventually caught. We must agree, there is a difference between touch and catch? Is a re-tagging runner allowed to leave on a touch or must he wait for the catch, no need to answer, I know we agree on that. If you let that sink in for just a moment, you must agree, there is a difference between the two.
If you don't re-read "a catch" and compare it to the following;
OBR: TOUCH. To touch a player or umpire is to touch any part of his body, his clothing or his equipment. Touch is not, anyway, anywho, related to, or in the same zip code as "a catch".

It's foul.

SLAS: No, it's a caught fly ball, and remains live. I didn't, nor will I go back through this thread and count for you, but all but one poster here by now, agrees; the OP is, "a caught fly ball" that remains in play and will leave the O in jeopardy, because the D may still make a play on them.

Caught/Not Caught is completely independent of fair/foul.
SLAS: Hey were agreeing a lot more.

Live/dead on a foul ball IS dependent on caught/not caught, but first you have to know 1) was it fair or foul and 2) was it caught or not.

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike (Post 732294)

SLAS: Dang another disconnect. Live/dead is never dependent of anything on a foul ball, a foul ball by definition and rule is always "dead". Hence why it " a foul ball" can never be caught.

A fly ball over foul territory with a defender under it is neither fair nor foul. The fact that if it were to fall or be touched while over foul territory would make it foul, it is not until, after that "something" happens. If the ball is caught over foul territory it's still in play, why, because it did not become a foul ball.