batting out of turn....

[chuckfan1]

Hey gang, new to this board. Someone reccommended it to me to check on rules etc. Have umped the past few years as a duty of being a mgr, and this is my first full year "on the clock".
Im learning new things all the time, and continaully trying to improve. Heres one thats got me paranoid. Batting out of turn. Ive read and re-read the book several times, but I cant get it to "click". That is, make total sense in my noggin, so if it happens, I can recall the it instantly and make the right call.
Now I can handle the most basic of this infraction, I think, but is there a quick rule of thumb that I can follow? No matter how big a cluster **** it might become?? Thanks......

[greymule]

Welcome, chuckfan1!

OBR and Fed treat batting out of order differently. NCAA may have yet more differences, I'm not sure. If you do ASA softball, they have a system all to themselves. What are you umpiring?

[chuckfan1]

Am doing Little League, and USSSA anywhere from 11-12 yr olds to 15-16.

[Rich Ives]

It's not nearly as hard as some assume.

If a batter bats out of order, only the teams may point it out. The umpires and official scorekeeper may not.

The batter who should be batting is termed the PROPER Batter; the one actually batting is an IMPROPER batter.

If one of the teams discovers an improper batter DURING THE AT BAT: The proper batter goes to the plate and assumes the count, if any, that was made by the improper batter. No other penalty.

If the improper batter completes his AB, the objecting team must object BEFORE THE NEXT PITCH OR PLAY. If the objection is not made before the next pitch or play - tough cookies - play on.

If the objection is timely and valid 1) the PROPER batter is called out; 2) any action that happened as a result of an improper batter putting the ball in play is nullified (including outs, base advances, runs scored, etc); 3) The batter who follows the PROPER batter in the order is now the proper batter.

If there is no objection made - ignore it and play on.

[Rita C]

For me it is easiest to remember that a pitch legalizes the PREVIOUS batter. When an appeal is made by the defense that's as far back as you need to go. The next step is to figure out who should have followed that batter in the order. If that isn't the person who just completed an at bat, the PROPER batter is called out.

If the batter at the plate is in the middle of a count, simply put the PROPER batter in with the same count.

Anything that happens DURING an illegal at bat stands. (stolen base, pickoff, advance on a wild pitch)

Anything that happens BECAUSE the ball was hit, OR because the illegal batter reaches first base is nullified.

Much easier to understand than to explain.

Rita

[Whowefoolin]

Always a good question!! Always worth reviewing. Remember, many get confused with improper batter and batter not announced. So don't. Different subject, but very close and usually confusing also.

Improper batter is only proper when he/she gets a hit/walk and another pitch is made.

All other scenarios have been covered, but one of once the improper batter is legal, who is the proper batter now? It is the batter who usually follows the improper batter in the proper order.

Just hope it doesn't happen. If it does and you notice it, hope no one else does. Take time out to brush plate. Throw a new ball into the pitcher to get your mind straight in case it is brought up.

Remember, still at bat, switch as if nothing has happened. On base, nullify everything if found before next pitch/play.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by chuckfan1
Hey gang, new to this board. Someone reccommended it to me to check on rules etc. Have umped the past few years as a duty of being a mgr, and this is my first full year "on the clock".
Im learning new things all the time, and continaully trying to improve. Heres one thats got me paranoid. Batting out of turn. Ive read and re-read the book several times, but I cant get it to "click". That is, make total sense in my noggin, so if it happens, I can recall the it instantly and make the right call.
Now I can handle the most basic of this infraction, I think, but is there a quick rule of thumb that I can follow? No matter how big a cluster **** it might become?? Thanks......

When I teach this rule I say:

It's called BOOT -- Batting Out of Turn.

It should be called BTSTBWIYT -- Being Too Stupid To Bat When It's Your Turn.

That helps all remember who is out (the Stupid one) -- the rest is just details.

[greymule]

The following batting-out-of-order play is handled differently by OBR, Fed, and ASA softball.

Able on 3B, Baker on 1B, no outs. Charles is supposed to bat, but Daniels bats instead and hits into a 6-4-3 double play. Able scores on the play. If the defense appeals, Charles is out for failing to bat in the proper order, but:

(1) In OBR, Able goes back to 3B, Baker goes back to 1B, and Daniels bats again, with one out.

(2) In Fed, Able goes back to 3B, Baker is out, and Daniels bats again, this time with two outs.

(3) In ASA softball, Baker and Daniels are both out (for three outs), and Able's run of course does not count.

I think NCAA handles it the same as OBR, and I don't know about Little League. Maybe somebody goes "poof!"

[Jim Porter]

LL is the same as OBR.

I'm surprised to learn about the FED difference. Wow. Talk about getting the best of ALL worlds. In FED, you get to make outs on an at-bat that gets nullified. What could be better?

[Roger Greene]

Originally posted by Jim Porter
LL is the same as OBR.

. What could be better?

ASA rule could allow you to get 3 outs with two batters. (I understand Fed used to do that also, but that would have been before my time.)

ASA play: Batting order Able, Baker, Charlie. Able leads off with single. Charlie hits into double play. Defense appeals BOO. 3 outs, eject offensive coach.

Roger Greene

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by chuckfan1
Hey gang, new to this board. Someone reccommended it to me to check on rules etc. Have umped the past few years as a duty of being a mgr, and this is my first full year "on the clock".
Im learning new things all the time, and continaully trying to improve. Heres one thats got me paranoid. Batting out of turn. Ive read and re-read the book several times, but I cant get it to "click". That is, make total sense in my noggin, so if it happens, I can recall the it instantly and make the right call.
Now I can handle the most basic of this infraction, I think, but is there a quick rule of thumb that I can follow? No matter how big a cluster **** it might become?? Thanks......

Chuck:

There's no penalty unless the batter the defense is gripping about has finished his at bat. So....

The important thing to remember is you have to check only the last two batters. Everybody before that is legal, regardless of how many batted out of order.

The names you want to check are:

Batter Just Finished
Batter Previous

If Batter Just Finished does not follow Batter Previous on the card, then Batter Just Finished is improper and Batter Previous is out.

That's the best way to enforce the rules all the gentleman -- and Rita C -- above gave you.

[Caselli]

If Batter Just Finished does not follow Batter Previous on the card, then Batter Just Finished is improper and Batter Previous is out.

I think "Batter Listed After Previous" is out. No ?

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by Caselli
If Batter Just Finished does not follow Batter Previous on the card, then Batter Just Finished is improper and Batter Previous is out.

I think "Batter Listed After Previous" is out. No ?

Yes, I'll amend it. Thanks: I was on my way to Mexico and got the names confused.

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by Carl Childress

Chuck:

There's no penalty unless the batter the defense is gripping about has finished his at bat. So....

The important thing to remember is you have to check only the last two batters. Everybody before that is legal, regardless of how many batted out of order.

The names you want to check are:

Batter Just Finished
Batter Previous

If Batter Just Finished does not follow Batter Previous on the card, then Batter Just Finished is improper and Batter Listed Next is out.

(Note: This has been amended as per Caselli's comment.)

That's the best way to enforce the rules all the gentleman -- and Rita C -- above gave you.

[Striker991]

I was on my way to Mexico... [/B]

Don't drink the water....you wouldn't want to be reminded of the IFF discussion while you are on vacation, now, would you?