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Old Fri Oct 11, 2002, 10:50am
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For the most part an assignor normally schedules one pair of umpires to do a double dip. You simply switch positions.

Assumption:

1. 18 and Under League
2. Same crew of umpires for both games or
3. a different crew.
4. We don't know (nor is it our responsibility) the disciplinary rules governing this particular league.


Game 1 we have the normal short and sweet Pre-game with the coaches. In game one we have an incident where B1 hits a HR and F1 plunks the next batter. Also in our judgement we felt that F1 deliberately threw at the next batter so we warn.

After the warning the "other teams" F1 decides to get even and plunks a batter in which case according to rule we eject F1 and the coach.

Here's my concerns and I would like to know how you would handle.

1. Assume we have the next game.

A. Does the warning we issued in game 1 Carry Over to Game 2?

B. Since we don't know the disciplinary policy, do we allow the player and coach whom we tossed in game 1 to play in game 2?

C. Should we conduct another Plate conference and lay the riot act to the coaches before game 2 begins? and

D. If we find out the league does have an automatic one game suspension policy, what do we do with a kid who has no-way home and is under 18 yrs. old.?

Assumption 2 - Another crew comes to do game number 2.

We are not supposed to have any bias when we do a game, but since we had an incident in game 1, do we brief the New crew on what happend?

Also, even though crew 2 didn't have game 1 should they issue the riot act to the coaches before game 2 begins?

In other words, how do you handle the second game of a double dip in which you had problems or I should say incidents in Game number 1?

Thanks

Pete Booth

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Old Fri Oct 11, 2002, 11:39am
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In terms of briefing the new crew: I don't know what the official instructions to umpires are, but if I were coming in to replace the guys who did the first game, I'd sure appreciate knowing anything I could. With that knowledge, I would give the teams a short, general warning to behave themselves in the second game. No, they don't start fresh, especially with regard to throwing at batters. Remember the situation with Clemens and the Mets this year. That crew most certainly was instructed to have a "bias" on the basis of past games.

I remember doing a girls' fast-pitch game in which I ruled a crash at the plate and called the runner out but, feeling the crash didn't quite meet the criteria for "flagrant," didn't eject the runner. I'm sure people will say I'm sexist, but in general females don't try to get away with dirty play at anywhere near the level that males do.

The crash didn't look that bad to me, but the fans and coaches screamed like hell. One drunken father had to be restrained from coming out after me. To make matters worse, though the catcher tried to continue playing, she had to be taken out and ended up in the emergency room. Both teams were highly ranked and were from the same town, about 30 miles away. Had I known that there was a long history of bad blood between the teams, I would have seen the crash differently. But of all the people in the park, I was apparently the only one who was ignorant of the situation.
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Old Fri Oct 11, 2002, 04:45pm
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I agree with T.

I'll add that, although the warning does not carry over, the umpire can issue a new warning before the start of the second game.

See the penultimate note to 8.02
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Old Sat Oct 12, 2002, 03:48am
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A. Does the warning we issued in game 1 Carry Over to Game 2? #No.

B. Since we don't know the disciplinary policy, do we allow the player and coach whom we tossed in game 1 to play in game 2? #Yes. That's a league problem.

C. Should we conduct another Plate conference and lay the riot act to the coaches before game 2 begins? #Yes/Yes.

D. If we find out the league does have an automatic one game suspension policy, what do we do with a kid who has no-way home and is under 18 yrs. old.? #He's the manager's responsibilty now. There's no reason that he can't sit in the stands, with the understanding that the manager will be peanalized if he (the player) causes any problems.

Assumption 2 - Another crew comes to do game number 2. #Tell them what happened. The ball is now in their court. It's their game, and their decision as what to do.

Bob

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Old Sat Oct 12, 2002, 07:29pm
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by PeteBooth


A. Does the warning we issued in game 1 Carry Over to Game 2?
NO

B. Since we don't know the disciplinary policy, do we allow the player and coach whom we tossed in game 1 to play in game 2?
Can't enforce that which you don't know.

C. Should we conduct another Plate conference and lay the riot act to the coaches before game 2 begins?
Always conduct a plate conference. You do need the get line up cards. (even if you don't use em, in this case you want them...lol) I might not reference the specific event but a comment like T's or something that you expect Sportmanship would be in order.

D. If we find out the league does have an automatic one game suspension policy, what do we do with a kid who has no-way home and is under 18 yrs. old.?
If someone makes a stink, you can allow him to either be in the stands or if your feeling particular gracious the dugout. One problem from him and you get yourself a baby sitter to accompany him. THE MANAGER !

What crew two does is there business. You do let them know though. Pete, don't you appreciate it if someone tells you the sh**house stinks before you take a dump? ;-)

In my Small Dog Opinion,
Bob
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Old Sun Oct 13, 2002, 09:45am
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Live and Learn I guess....

T, when do you get/exchange line up cards for the second game then?

Thanks for the correction.

Bob
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Old Sun Oct 13, 2002, 02:41pm
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At the beginning of the second game coaches bring out the line-up, home coach gives me new balls and I say, "Let's play another one gentlemen."

Some might call that a plate conference. We don't.

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Old Mon Oct 14, 2002, 08:04am
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Re: Bob

Quote:
Originally posted by Tim C
C: I have never seen a plate conference for a second game of a double header. Why in this case would it happen?
Tee, I'd think if for some reason the assignor split the DH and had a new crew handle game #2, then a pregame conference would be in order.

Additionally, if there had been a $hithou$e between teams in game #1, I'd think the crew of game #1 should attempt to let the crew of game #2 know it with the same teams repeating against each other. That doesn't mean crew #2 should provide warning or even acknowledge to the teams their awareness of the previous problem, but knowing the problem could aid crew #2 in decisions of conduct they may need to make during their game.


Just my opinion,

Freix


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Old Wed Oct 16, 2002, 06:01pm
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All great instruction. But what I'm wondering is if you were certain the first hit batter was intentionally thrown at by the pitcher, why did you only warn him? If I were certain I would have tossed him immediately.

Additionally, ask the tossed coach if he is ejected for a 2nd game. He will know. Do it in the presence of both coaches. If they don't agree then you can't do anything but let him back into the 2nd game. If they do agree then essentially they have enforced the rule upon themselves...
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