What Should I Have Called?

[umpire99]

This might be a HTBT play, but I was calling a FED game last night. F1 throws a wild pitch that bounds toward the third base side on deck circle with a right handed batter at the plate. As the catcher is going after the ball, I tell the hitter to get out of the way. He exits the box toward third base. The catcher throws the ball and hits the batter in the helmet and the ball gets away. What should have been called?

[BretMan]

Yes, we would "Have To Be There" to call this one because:

- You didn't tell us if there were any runners on base.

- If there were, you didn't tell us if they were trying to advance.

- If there were, we don't know which base were they advancing to.

- Where was the catcher throwing the ball- to a base to make a play or back to the pitcher?

- We don't know if the throw contacting the batter prevented the defense from making a play.

Besides all that...why are you taking it upon yourself to instruct a player where to move or stand? They have coaches for that stuff! Doing so possibly interjects the umpire into the game in a manner he shouldn't, either giving the offense an advantage by helping the batter move to a position where he wouldn't interfere or giving the defense an advantage by placing the batter in a position where he did interfere when he would not have otherwise. Neither is a good thing! Let the players play the game and make their own decisions on where they need to move.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by umpire99

This might be a HTBT play, but I was calling a FED game last night. F1 throws a wild pitch that bounds toward the third base side on deck circle with a right handed batter at the plate. As the catcher is going after the ball, I tell the hitter to get out of the way. He exits the box toward third base. The catcher throws the ball and hits the batter in the helmet and the ball gets away. What should have been called?

Probably nothing because it sounds like the batter was doing what you told him to do. So if anything, the call would be "umpire stupidity".

You are the arbiter, not a coach or a fellow player. Never tell a player to "move" during a play. If they get in the way, so be it.... make the call. By you telling the batter to move, you probably cause him to move into the play. Just do your job and stop coaching.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by umpire99

This might be a HTBT play, but I was calling a FED game last night. F1 throws a wild pitch that bounds toward the third base side on deck circle with a right handed batter at the plate. As the catcher is going after the ball, I tell the hitter to get out of the way. He exits the box toward third base. The catcher throws the ball and hits the batter in the helmet and the ball gets away. What should have been called?

You should have called nothing when you told batter to move. Don't coach. YOU affected this play, you can't very well call the hitter out now for it.

Had the hitter not moved, and the catcher hit batter with a throw, you have nothing but a dmc.

[umpire99]

R3 advancing home. I did tell B1 to move and in the process he got into the way of F2's throw attempting to get R3. The throw was off line and probably would not have retired the runner. I called the runner out and sent R1 & R2 back to their TOP bases. The coach wanted to know what his player was supposed to do. He said that he moved out of the way and I was rewarding the defense by making a bad throw. I told him that I didn't know if it was a bad throw or not and that he needed to drop it because it was just a JV game and his team was up 5-0. The very next pitch was in the dirt and got by the pitcher. The batter turned and sprinted to the side away from the ball. I almost tossed the little smart alec for that act.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by umpire99

I told him that I didn't know if it was a bad throw or not and that he needed to drop it because it was just a JV game and his team was up 5-0.

I hope you didn't really say that.

The batter turned and sprinted to the side away from the ball. I almost tossed the little smart alec for that act.

That's what the batter is supposed to do.

The OP was likely a no-call.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by umpire99

R3 advancing home. I did tell B1 to move and in the process he got into the way of F2's throw attempting to get R3. The throw was off line and probably would not have retired the runner. I called the runner out and sent R1 & R2 back to their TOP bases. The coach wanted to know what his player was supposed to do. He said that he moved out of the way and I was rewarding the defense by making a bad throw. I told him that I didn't know if it was a bad throw or not and that he needed to drop it because it was just a JV game and his team was up 5-0. The very next pitch was in the dirt and got by the pitcher. The batter turned and sprinted to the side away from the ball. I almost tossed the little smart alec for that act.

Holy crap, and they let you work? Good grief. Usually the stuff you post here is helpful and makes you look like a good umpire...

But in what universe is telling the coach that this particular game is not important a good idea? "He needed to drop it because it was just a JV game "????? I'm pretty damn sure I'd suspend any of my guys saying what you said if it got back to me from a reliable source. Dang.

And I'll ask you what the coach asked you... not only did you TELL the kid to move (NEVER!!!!), but you called out an out based on action that you told him to do? Awful. I have to ask - how did you not know whether it was a bad throw? Batter went where YOU told him to go, and was hit by the throw. Either you gave the batter VERY poor instructions, ot the throw WAS bad.

PS - would have been quite interesting to be your supervisor if you'd tossed "the little smart aleck" for making sure he got the heck out of the way this time. YOU made this mess - tossing people because of a mess YOU made is bad umpiring.

[umpire99]

I had already had it with this coach. He had asked me during the varsity game to get a better look on a play at second when I was BU. I told him that I knew what I was doing and that if I needed to move to get a better angle, I would do it. I know when to save a step or two on pickoff plays. He also asked me to watch for the pitcher not coming to a complete stop. I told him that I hadn't called it all night so I couldn't start now. Later in the game, my partner called a balk for not stopping. I was not happy with him for stepping on my toes by making my calls.

You guys may not like that I tell players where to go during a play, but I feel like if the coach doesn't do his job and tell them what to do, then it is left up to me. Some of these coaches are cheating their players by not instructing them on how to make the umpire's job easier.

[BretMan]

Man, the hole you're digging just keeps getting deeper and deeper...

If the coaches are "cheating" their player by not giving adequate instruction, that's not your problem. And coaching players has little to do with "making the umpire's job easier".

Besides, how do you know what these coaches are teaching their players? Maybe they've been taught to vacate any area needed by the defense on this play, but the kid just zoned out or didn't even see the runner coming home.

Then you get ticked because your partner sees a rule violation and calls it, after you gave the coach a half-baked explanation why you wouldn't? Maybe your partner just finlly decided that whoever is teaching you basic game management techniques has done such an inadequate job that he'd better take matters into his own hands.

[MD Longhorn]

Mr. 99,

Can I ask you a simple question? Are you here to learn, or to pump your chest? If the latter, that's fine, we all have the ignore button. If the former, however, you really need to take that chip off your shoulder and listen.

I'm not sure I can say this any clearer to you ... DON'T COACH. EVER.

I would warn you that if you get in the habit of coaching the players it will come up and bite you one day. Problem is ... you got bit in the OP and don't realize it. You need to step back and face the fact that a real umpire, an umpire that wants to be the best that he can be, will not coach the kids. You want to go do 6U ball or low level 8U and help them out, that's one thing. JV and Varsity? Truly, sir - you need to keep out of it. If "the coach doesn't do his job and tell them what to do,", it is absolutely NOT your job.

As to your previous post, you also need to learn that every game is new. If he ticked you off in the varsity game, that's water under the bridge in the JV game. Don't keep grudges or you will never succeed.

Don't ever tell a coach "I haven't called it all game, I can't start now." Might as well just say, "I've sucked at this all game, I need to keep sucking." Seriously - that's what the coach will hear, and that's how your assignor will take it. You might THINK what you just said ... but don't say it. Say, "he's been legal so far, coach. I'm watching it." or something like that. What you typed begs the question - if you KNEW he was illegal and you weren't calling it, why weren't you calling it? Sounds like your partner saw you failing in your job and had to jump in. Man up and call the game.

The comment you claim to have said in the earlier post about this being "only a JV game" says a lot about unprofessionalism to me, and I was not being overly dramatic when I said that I would have serious doubts assigning one of my umpires to another game if I learned that was his attitude.

[WilliamK]

The more you say the worse it gets!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Take the advice these guys are giving you and learn from it. Just admit you kicked this one pretty bad and try to do better in the future.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by umpire99

I had already had it with this coach. He had asked me during the varsity game to get a better look on a play at second when I was BU. I told him that I knew what I was doing and that if I needed to move to get a better angle, I would do it. I know when to save a step or two on pickoff plays.

Strike one. The previous exchange doesn't matter. YOU acted inappropriately, both in telling the batter what to do and your words to his coach. You told him, in effect, that this game is not important.

Originally Posted by umpire99

He also asked me to watch for the pitcher not coming to a complete stop. I told him that I hadn't called it all night so I couldn't start now. Later in the game, my partner called a balk for not stopping. I was not happy with him for stepping on my toes by making my calls.

Strike two. This is not just your call; PU has the power to call it as well. Your logic also sucks. You said, out loud, that you were not going to do the one thing that you are getting paid to do. If I heard your explanation as a coach, you'd be so far wrapped around yourself that the protest committee would be wondering from what homeless shelter your assignor got you.

Originally Posted by umpire99

You guys may not like that I tell players where to go during a play, but I feel like if the coach doesn't do his job and tell them what to do, then it is left up to me.

Strike three. Hang up your mask. You are making a mockery of the profession. You are a fraud posing as an umpire.

[MD Longhorn]

Is it that Bret types faster than me, or is it that I can't make a point in as few words as he can? Both?

[BretMan]

I think it's the time zone difference between Ohio and Texas.

[GA Umpire]

Should have called your assignor and went home. Tell him you are not going to call the game, make up your own rules, and do the coaches' jobs for them. All of which is NOT done by a good umpire.

You interfered with the game by coaching the player, not calling the game by the rules, held a grudge against a participant, and made up lame excuses of why you are going to ignore the rules.

Next time you feel like doing this, call your assignor and let him know to get someone else. It may be short notice. But, he will feel better once you explain the poor job you plan on doing. He'll get someone that is hopefully ready to ACTUALLY umpire the game properly. And, quit leaving a bad taste in the coaches' mouth for the next one to deal with.