1 in 5 wrong? Really?

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

This season in Major League Baseball has seemingly brought a new umpiring controversy every week, with Jim Joyce's blown call in the Armando Galarraga near-perfect game standing out.

MLB should invest in THEIR product. Umpires are part of THEIR product. MLB should take control of the umpiring.

Presently, you are NOT getting the best of the best because one has to have certian life-style to TRY and make it to the BIGS. You earn "peanuts" unless you are fortunate enough to make it to the BIGS. How many individuals even if they wanted to can afford to "go down that path"

If MLB a Billion dollar industry took over control of the umpiring perhaps we would see a better product on the field. Presently there is little movement at the major League level.

Also, unlike basketball / football there are many "coin-flip" calls in baseball. Also, the myth a tie goes to the runner is another one. What will replay accomplish for these? How many angles will be used?

Therefore, IMO before MLB goes to a full fledged replay system, try taking a more serious role in umpire development and then see what happens.

Pete Booth

[BSUmp16]

Please don't get me started on the "ties go the runner is a myth" thing because of the "there are no ties in baseball" fallacy. This study says that on average there are 1.3 calls PER GAME that are "too close to call- in other words, "ties". Of these 1.3/game almost 14% were"too close to call" EVEN IN SLO-MO INSTANT REPLY.

There are most certainly "ties" in baseball - the challenge is that you, as the ump, just have to figure out a consistent approach to how you're going to call those "too close to call" plays.

[ODJ]

Of the missed calls I've seen from the report, the umpires were in poor positions.
Are all of the missed calls posted?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BSUmp16

Of these 1.3/game almost 14% were"too close to call" EVEN IN SLO-MO INSTANT REPLY.

There are most certainly "ties" in baseball - the challenge is that you, as the ump, just have to figure out a consistent approach to how you're going to call those "too close to call" plays.

What a crock! I guess I have three choices now: "safe!" "out!" or "too close to call!"

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by BSUmp16

Please don't get me started on the "ties go the runner is a myth" thing because of the "there are no ties in baseball" fallacy. This study says that on average there are 1.3 calls PER GAME that are "too close to call- in other words, "ties". Of these 1.3/game almost 14% were"too close to call" EVEN IN SLO-MO INSTANT REPLY.

There are most certainly "ties" in baseball - the challenge is that you, as the ump, just have to figure out a consistent approach to how you're going to call those "too close to call" plays.

"Tie goes to the runner" is a myth. I have yet to see a play that was a tie in one of my games.

And what's with 1.3? What's the 0.3? Is that like a soft ground ball that would have been a close play if it hadn't rolled foul?

[UmpTTS43]

Whether you agree with the story or not, calls are missed. The question is, why are they missed? If you look at the plays that they played, you can see, more often than not, that the umpire was not in the optimum position to make the correct call. With proper positioning and timing, these missed calls would be reduced dramatically. That is why it is important to continue to refine and work at your game. Eliminating these mistakes eliminates mistakes. Guys, you don't have to get all worked up over this. Don't take it personally. Learn from it and incorporate it into your game.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What is the "same thing they do in other sports?" The reason I say this in football there are a bunch of plays they cannot review because there is entirely a judgment call. In basketball they do not review all calls. And if you let the public have their way, they would want to review those too.

There's IR in football and hockey. No, it's not for any play, but there are defined plays. I would assume baseball would also define which plays can be reviewed.

In football and hockey, if the play is reviewed, the official's call is only overturned if there's conclusive video to show the original call was incorrect. In any other situation, the original call stands.

Originally Posted by BSUmp16

This study says that on average there are 1.3 calls PER GAME that are "too close to call- in other words, "ties".

Actually, we have no indication as to what ESPN's criteria was in determining which calls they decided to review, other than "requiring instant replay."

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

Whether you agree with the story or not, calls are missed. The question is, why are they missed? If you look at the plays that they played, you can see, more often than not, that the umpire was not in the optimum position to make the correct call. With proper positioning and timing, these missed calls would be reduced dramatically. That is why it is important to continue to refine and work at your game. Eliminating these mistakes eliminates mistakes. Guys, you don't have to get all worked up over this. Don't take it personally. Learn from it and incorporate it into your game.

If you read the story and accept the figures it is based on, they are b!tching because the umpires are were wrong on less than 1% of their calls.

Is this really shocking?

[BSUmp16]

Originally Posted by mbyron

What a crock! I guess I have three choices now: "safe!" "out!" or "too close to call!"

Doh!!! There are three things an umpire should do before making a call - Pause.... Read... React. I think you skipped the second stage.

I NEVER said there are three choices. There are, and always have been, two choices to make on a play - Safe and Out. As I said, as the umpire you have to make one of those two choices.

Having said THAT, saying that there are no 'ties" in baseball is simply not true. If, on instant slo-mo replay it cannot be determined whether the ball arrived before the runner (or vice versa) then that is, for all practical purposes, a "tie - or "too close to call" (which according to this study happens about once every 12-14 games). Nevertheless you, as an umpire HAVE TO MAKE THE CALL - Safe or Out. How you, as an umpire, go about consistently resolving that decision - to arrive at the safe or out call, is up to you. But the fact remains, as this study proves, there are going to be situations where it is impossible for you tell tell definitively whether the ball or the runner arrived first, because it's "too close to call".

[NJump]

Nothing is "too close to call". There is a system in place---umpires. "too close to overturn" might have been a better term. Reread Pete Booth's reply and digest it. MLB is seriously delinquent in this area. Billions in income and shortchanging the customers. Kinda like BP saving a few bucks on the oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BSUmp16

Doh!!!
Nevertheless you, as an umpire HAVE TO MAKE THE CALL - Safe or Out. How you, as an umpire, go about consistently resolving that decision - to arrive at the safe or out call, is up to you.

BS. Safe and out are defined by rule. Runner beats ball = safe; runner doesn't beat ball = out.

Please explain where "ties" and your idea of creative, arbitrary, subjective call-making enter the rules.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by BSUmp16

Doh!!! There are three things an umpire should do before making a call - Pause.... Read... React. I think you skipped the second stage.

BSUmp16,

1. "Pause...Read...React..." has nothing to do with the actual making of a call.

It is the technique taught to decide on the proper movement (and eventual positioning) when a ball is batted into play.

2. While I would grant that it is theoretically possible for two events to occur simultaneously at two different points in space (i.e., a "tie") both Einstein and Hegel argue, rather persuasively, that it is impossible for a human being to accurately perceive that happened. Einstein from a physics perspective, Hegel from a limits of human perception perspective; they are both a lot smarter than you or I, and I believe them.

3. This "study" proves nothing other than the authors don't know jack about statistics, studies, or responsible journalism.

However, I wholeheartedly agree with your essential point that it is the umpire's responsibility to MAKE THE DAMN CALL!

JM

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by yawetag

There's IR in football and hockey. No, it's not for any play, but there are defined plays. I would assume baseball would also define which plays can be reviewed.

In football and hockey, if the play is reviewed, the official's call is only overturned if there's conclusive video to show the original call was incorrect. In any other situation, the original call stands.

I am fully aware of all of this. That is why I made the statements I did. But based on what this report said, there were no criteria other than leave all plays up for debate and review. If baseball does that, then you will have a lot of problems with timing of the game.

Peace

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

2. While I would grant that it is theoretically possible for two events to occur simultaneously at two different points in space (i.e., a "tie") both Einstein and Hegel argue, rather persuasively, that it is impossible for a human being to accurately perceive that happened. Einstein from a physics perspective, Hegel from a limits of human perception perspective; they are both a lot smarter than you or I, and I believe them.

That's awfully highbrow for an umpire site, John. Next we'll have some yahoo debating the Copenhagen interpretation on here!

[Tim C]

While not the final word:

The NTSB and the NBA did studies that document that the human mind cannot comprehend activites that occur within .03th of a second of each other.

So when a call is "to close to call" we settle for a subconscious process that makes us "believe" we are correct.

I agree with JM (but I always do).

T