How about an opinion:

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Ratings in my area are only used for varsity contests and are to help rate officials for a small part of playoff consideration. In those ratings we never get information about positioning or mechanics, they simply give an opinion as to what we can do in 5 different categories. The top level being a State Final, the lowest level only able to work a lower-level game. That is only to give some input to our playoff assigning which means theoretically you can get so many of those ratings that one rating means little to nothing. And we never know for sure what they gave us and the coaches must clarify the score of the game.

Sounds exactly like Missouri. Each head coach in a Varsity-level game must rate each official in the following categories: Verbal Communication Skills, Physical Appearance, Effort, Control, Consistency, Professionalism. When evaluating, they give a score between 1 (State-Level Tournament Caliber) to 5 (Sub-Varsity Caliber). These scores are used to determine post-season assignments. It's obviously not the only criteria, but it's used.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

But we do have an observers program where we try to watch newer officials as to help them get better. In a sport like baseball there is not the man power to evaluate that many in a year. Baseball is one of the least officiated sports in the state and definitely that case in the major sports.

And that's my point. There are days in the High School season, especially after rain-outs are being rescheduled, that every available umpire is needed to do a game. For most of the season, I'd guarantee that no umpire would be turned away from a game if they were available -- the open spots are there. In these cases, it would be almost impossible for the organization to have the ability to send another umpire to a game solely to evaluate the umpires on the field.

[jkumpire]

I am sorry, while I understand what some of you are saying about some coaches having a good idea about positioning and game management, there is a person who can really address some of these issues; a good Athletic Director.

AD's have to deal with umpires and coaches, and he or she is the one with a unique perspective. Frankly, in the area of the state I am involved with, I know the AD's I can trust, and the AD's who know what they are doing. Those folks can be great sources of insight for officials' organizations, and sometimes they can also smooth out rough patches between umpires and coaches, many times by telling the coach to "get a grip".

Frankly Tee, I think these people might be the people you need for umpire evaluation, not coaches.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

I am sorry, while I understand what some of you are saying about some coaches having a good idea about positioning and game management, there is a person who can really address some of these issues; a good Athletic Director.

AD's have to deal with umpires and coaches, and he or she is the one with a unique perspective. Frankly, in the area of the state I am involved with, I know the AD's I can trust, and the AD's who know what they are doing. Those folks can be great sources of insight for officials' organizations, and sometimes they can also smooth out rough patches between umpires and coaches, many times by telling the coach to "get a grip".

Frankly Tee, I think these people might be the people you need for umpire evaluation, not coaches.

And in my area, I'm lucky to see an AD at the game for longer than an inning.

[johnnyg08]

I would not want AD's evaluating my performance on the field...they might have less of a clue than the coaches

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by yawetag

And in my area, I'm lucky to see an AD at the game for longer than an inning.

I do not know if I even see ADs during the baseball season at all.

Peace

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not know if I even see ADs during the baseball season at all.

Every once in a while, I'll see one. I definitely see a school administrator, and occasionally it's the AD.

[jkumpire]

I saw your comments people, I am amazed:

1. In every HS athletic event I officiated in the 2009-2010 except for one wrestling tournament, I talked to the home school AD or Assistant AD.

2. Some of you are misunderstanding me, so let me try again: For SOME things, like game management for example, AD's have insights that coaches do not have, and officials do not have. For example, in the state I work in, who deals with ejections? The AD and principal. Who evaluates coaches and their work: AD's.

3. I know for a fact that many AD's I talk to will talk about what relationship coaches have with officials. And sometimes it will be words like: "Stop complaining about ...." Other times it is the opposite.

4. Finally, in order to be clear, let em say that AD's may well have a part to play in Tee's system, not a big part, but maybe a better view of things than coaches do.

UMMV.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

I saw your comments people, I am amazed:

1. In every HS athletic event I officiated in the 2009-2010 except for one wrestling tournament, I talked to the home school AD or Assistant AD.

Well in baseball that would not apply here. The reason is because baseball is one of multiple sports that can likely be playing at the same time as other sports. It is not unusual that there is a softball game and a soccer (e.g. Lacrosse, Boy's Volleyball, or Track too) game is going on at that school at the same time. I am sure the AD or other administrators have other things going on and that is why we do not see them. And even when it comes to calling the school to verify the contest, it is not uncommon that I cannot get to talk to the AD for that information rather than I will talk to the department secretary instead.

This is just one of these many things that is going to vary based on where you live and the systems you are under.

Peace

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

I saw your comments people, I am amazed:

1. In every HS athletic event I officiated in the 2009-2010 except for one wrestling tournament, I talked to the home school AD or Assistant AD.

2. Some of you are misunderstanding me, so let me try again: For SOME things, like game management for example, AD's have insights that coaches do not have, and officials do not have. For example, in the state I work in, who deals with ejections? The AD and principal. Who evaluates coaches and their work: AD's.

While the AD may be present, is he watching and observing ALL 7 innings of the game?

Answer: Highly unlikely

The AD might catch an inning or 2 but he/she is most likely doing "other" things while the game is going on. He /she is there but not necessarily at the field UNLESS his/her presence is needed.

Why should the AD have input? What does he know about umpire positioning? whether or not a balk should have been called or what OBS / interference are.

In other words theoretcially you could get an excellent rating from the coaches / AD BUT received a bad evaluation from the umpire evaluator

Why!

Even though the calls were correct and the HC and VC were "happy", the umpires were not in the Proper position. Yeah in today's game they "got away with it" BUT the umpire evaluator KNOWS that eventually if this crew or individual does not get into proper position it's just a matter of time before they get burned.

That's why in my answer to TEE, the FIRST "builiding block" HAS to start with the Umpire association.

The problem:

Schools will most likely NOT want to pay for an umpire evaluator in addition to the crew. These evaluators should get some form of compensation otherwise they would simply do games and forget about evaluating.

I like Bob J's idea on receiving the coaches evaluation, make the questions simple for them to fill out and do not make them ambiguous.

Pete Booth

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by yawetag

Sounds exactly like Missouri. Each head coach in a Varsity-level game must rate each official in the following categories: Verbal Communication Skills, Physical Appearance, Effort, Control, Consistency, Professionalism. When evaluating, they give a score between 1 (State-Level Tournament Caliber) to 5 (Sub-Varsity Caliber). These scores are used to determine post-season assignments. It's obviously not the only criteria, but it's used.

In Illinois they only get to give a 1-5 rating. They do not get to tell us anything else. That was the case several years ago, but that changed. That was a good change because you never knew what they meant and it never made you better. It was just a way to rip on the officials. Not productive at all.

Peace