2-Man to 3 or 4-Man?

[gfgartland]

I am the Assistant Chief Umpire for one of my leagues. We finally (after years of discussion) went to 2-man crews for our high school and Jr. high levels 2 years ago. We had previously only used the 2-man in the Championships.

We have a good solid core of 2-man umps (including myself and another who went to Jim Evans), but would like to possibly step it up to either 3-man or 4-man crews on our Championships.

I am wondering if this is something that can be done easily, or should we wait and hold off for maybe down the line? None of us have really ever done the 3 or 4, so it would be a 1 day, 2 game thing.

If we did it, what do you see would be the downfalls (missed coverages, forgotten rotations, ect.)?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by gfgartland

I am wondering if this is something that can be done easily, or should we wait and hold off for maybe down the line? None of us have really ever done the 3 or 4, so it would be a 1 day, 2 game thing.

Don't do it until AFTER you have had training, including classroom, some time on a field, and maybe even a "practice" game. Otherwise, you'll end up with no umpires making a call, two umpires making a call, umpires not watching the play because they are wondering what their partners are doing / wondering what they should be doing, etc.

[jicecone]

My suggestion is to get a copy or 2....4 of the latest 2010 CCA Baseball Umpire Manual for starters and work from there. If all of you follow that guideline alone you can do a bangup job.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by jicecone

My suggestion is to get a copy or 2....4 of the latest 2010 CCA Baseball Umpire Manual for starters and work from there. If all of you follow that guideline alone you can do a bangup job.

I disagree. A championship game is no place to demostrate "book lernin'". Follow Bob's advice. Study, train and practice.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Don't do it until AFTER you have had training, including classroom, some time on a field, and maybe even a "practice" game. Otherwise, you'll end up with no umpires making a call, two umpires making a call, umpires not watching the play because they are wondering what their partners are doing / wondering what they should be doing, etc.

Great advice. My first 3-man experience was a clinic that included a day of classroom instruction, 2 full days of field drills then 9 eval games in 3 days. DI guys with a ton of CWS & regional experience nit-picked us without mercy. I never felt so clueless. I started to feel comfortable with 3-man during the 9th game.

You need a very sound understanding in 2-man before taking on 3-man. The same rotations apply in 3-man (plus a few others) as well as some reverse rotations. If you do 3-man for the playoffs and you have a weak link, put him behind the plate and push him on the rotations. He will do the least damage there.

As far as 3-man vs. 4-man, I think 3-man is better. It's about boxing in the runners rather than an umpire at every base. Done properly, 3-man is a thing of beauty.

[jicecone]

Are we getting a little overly technical here? You act as though I was suggesting that they each go stand in position and read the manual during the Championship game.

I suggested something to study. At least it is a guideline to start with. It even has diagrams that they can train and practice with.

God, chill out!!!

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Are we getting a little overly technical here? You act as though I was suggesting that they each go stand in position and read the manual during the Championship game.

I suggested something to study. At least it is a guideline to start with. It even has diagrams that they can train and practice with.

God, chill out!!!

It's impossible for some to chill. They're too busy picking more nits than a father/son monkey team that knows they're being filmed by National Geographic.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Are we getting a little overly technical here? You act as though I was suggesting that they each go stand in position and read the manual during the Championship game.

I suggested something to study. At least it is a guideline to start with. It even has diagrams that they can train and practice with.

God, chill out!!!

Wow,

One guy responded directly to you and another agreed with Bob's response which was before yours.

That being said...

gfgartland,

Get a full season of your guys studying the CCA manual, or other appropriate guides (like jicecone recommends) and actually working a new mechanic (like Bob recommends)..... then turn em' loose during next year's tourney.

Nothing worse than a missed rotation when the "miss" is at home plate.

[kylejt]

I wouldn't go three or four man, with guys who've never worked it before, in a big game. I wouldn't take the chance of stepping on each other out there. It ain't rocket surgery, but it is a bit tricky, and you can look really bad out there quickly. I see it every year.

If you can get a game somewhere else beforehand, do that. 10 minutes on a white board, and one game should do it for guys who already have two man down.

[JRutledge]

This is a JH league; this is the place to do this if any place. I would just have some trainings or review of the mechanics. Also I would like to know if your JH league plays on a 90 feet (between bases) field. Rotations are a little different on a smaller field which some JH levels play on. And working 3 is not that difficult and 4 is even easier. It really is not that big of a deal as some want to make it, but that is my take.

Peace

[piaa_ump]

championship games are not the place to spring a new mechanic on a crew....

I would rather see a well run 2 man game than a messed up 3-4 man game....as been said before, pick your best guys for the game and put them in the system that gives them the best opportunity for success....

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by piaa_ump

as been said before, pick your best guys for the game and put them in the system that gives them the best opportunity for success....

I can see where the group thinks "Well, if we go to 4-man, we can give more umpires the opportunity to do the game. We really do have 4 guys that deserve it, so let's do it."

I don't agree with that line of thinking.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by yawetag

I can see where the group thinks "Well, if we go to 4-man, we can give more umpires the opportunity to do the game. We really do have 4 guys that deserve it, so let's do it."

I don't agree with that line of thinking.

For a JH summer league game? I think it is a great time to have 4 guys work a system that is essentially easier than working with two as the movements are very easy. When is there another time they are going to work with this many umpires and someone not think they are totally crazy?

Peace

[piaa_ump]

Originally Posted by yawetag

I can see where the group thinks "Well, if we go to 4-man, we can give more umpires the opportunity to do the game. We really do have 4 guys that deserve it, so let's do it."

I don't agree with that line of thinking.

I dont think Ive made myself clear...lets say you picked 4 of your best guys who can do the championship game, but none of them have ever done 4 man.....my thought is to scrap doing 4 man and then assess if they can do three man.....if 3 of the 4 guys are well versed in 3 man then assign the 3 best to the game doing the 3 man system.....

if none of your 4 best guys are well versed in systems over 2 man, then choose the best 2 guys and do 2man.....

For championship games.... I want the best guys working the system that gives them the highest chances for a sucessful game....

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by piaa_ump

For championship games.... I want the best guys working the system that gives them the highest chances for a sucessful game....

And I completely agree. I was agreeing with you by giving the thought process of many organizations.