appeal play
 

quick question,

2 outs, runner on 1st misses 3rd base on a HR. defense appeals, does the batters run count?

Isn't R1 a preceeding runner to BR? Can any run score when a preceeding runner has made the third out?

is the sarcastic wise *ss reply necessary???

a simple, "no, the run doesnt count" would suffice just fine.

not that its gonna matter to you one bit bc you are firmly affixed to your high horse, but i was reading a thread on another forum and saw this question. i knew of this forum so i figured id ask here to help the other person out.

that being said, if you truly dont know and were asking a legitimate question, i apologize. but, if that is the case, there is no need to re ask the same question i asked in the first place.

He wasn't being sarcastic--he was trying to point you to the rules basis so that you could figure it out for yourself, which will likely stick with you better than if he had just answered, "No."

Edit: By the way, you didn't mention a rule set, so assuming OBR, this would be rule 4.09a, which I'll quote below:

Your play exactly matches exception #3.

Whoa there Mr. Questions. Most of the participants on this forum spend a lot of time studying and reading many books and manuals, including the rule books, to learn this stuff.

The one you choose to disrespect (Bob) happens to be one of the more knowledgeable members.

Bob is more of a gentlemen than I so, next time you need a rule question answered, get off your lazy butt and look up the rule yourself. Then you can really impress your friends, and don't only have to ACT, as though you know something about the rules.

steveshane67,

If you're too lazy to look it up yourself there's no reason to accuse bob of being a "wise a$$" or suggesting he is "firmly affixed to (his) high horse" - because he's not.

You might want to read Rule 7.12 .

JM

its not like i was asking if the runners on base, who kept running after the 3rd out was recorded, and crossed home would count.

if i asked "if the batter missed third base on a HR, would the other runners on base runs count" would that receive a cryptic sarcastic reply as well?

did it ever occur to you that someone might have tried to search for it but didnt see it and didnt feel like thoroughly reading through 13 pages of rules (sec 7 is 13 pages) when they could spend 5 seconds posting a question on a rules forum.

steveshane,

Yes, it did.

You're welcome.

JM

Or you could go to MLB.com which has fully searchable pdf's for your reading pleasure.

another way to ask your question is to post a few rules that you already looked up and couldn't figure them out. you'll get a lot more credit on here for at least attempting to do some leg work on your own first.

yes, it is faster sometimes to just ask on here...but many on here will teach you to fish as well. I've always learned more when I read about the rule and the ridiculous amount of manuals I've purchase over the last few years.

lighten up on Bob...it's good to make friends on here

thats where i originally tried to search. the problem was i searched for "missed", as in missed base, when the MLB rule talks about failure to touch. the only pertinent runner rule with "missed" doesnt address the appeal being the 3rd out and following runners runs not counting.

but thanks again.

i just wonder why this post

http://forum.officiating.com/basebal...irst-base.html

received nothing but legit helpful responses, but mine didnt?

i even know the answer to the question.

Steve --

1) My original response was offered in the spirit of the "give a man a fish...teach a man to fish" saying.

2) You'd be surprised what else you can learn by looking through the "13 pages" of rules.

maybe im missing something.

my post was a simple yes or no question that should be a very easy question for any baseball ump to answer with a simple yes or no.

as you can see by my first followup post, i have nothing to do with the question, i was simply trying to help someone else out, bc i knew of this forum, and i knew it was a simple yes or no question.

i dont play baseball, i dont umpire baseball, heck, i hardly even watch baseball, so, i dont care about pouring over the rulebook, or purchasing manuals.

Sometimes it depends on who answers first.

I will point out that a follow-up question in that thread elicited the following response: "I and most on this forum could easily tell you but I listed the rule from the book in post #2. See if you can figure it out. Learn on your own and it will be much clearer for you. "

That's similar to the advice you received.

Ah -- most to whom that description applies include that information in the OP. Had that been the case, I would have realized you were not interested in fishing, and just given you the information to take back.

I really don't care either way what you think or what you choose to purchase or not purchase. If you want help on this board, I'm simply giving you advice just like some of the other veterans on here. Take it or leave it, makes no difference to me

thats lovely.

if i asked "if the batter missed third base on a HR, would the other runners on base runs count" would that receive a cryptic sarcastic reply as well?

the reason i ask is bc i would assume the answer would be no, and that an actual response, maybe with a rule mixed in, would be given. thus one could only deduce that a certain "obscure" rulebook question threshold would have to be crossed to receive a straight answer. which would lead me to ask why my original question was deemed so mundane that it couldnt be answered legitimately.

maybe that was the 100% best thread reference i could have used, BUT, i looked at the first page of the forum, saw what seemed to be a relatively easy question, read the first few responses and noted how they all were legitimate, and stopped reading the thread bc i wasnt looking for words of wisdom, just a thread were ppl were given real answers to a simple question.

No. It would have recieved the reply of "Do any of the exceptions in the "how a run scores" rule apply?"

Neither cryptic, nor sarcastic to the usual types of people who post questions here.

steve,

Have you considered coaching? Sounds like you're eminently qualified. :rolleyes:

JM

that seems to be the crux of our situation, i dont want help, i wanted a simple yes or no answer.

i tried to preface that when i said "quick question". lesson learned, next time i post on an "experts" forum looking for a simple answer, ill explicitely say that and that i want a yes or no response.

No. :)

thats the problem with your philosophy of answering questions. IF I KNEW IF ANY OF THE EXCEPTIONS IN THE "HOW A RUN SCORES" RULE APPLY, I WOULDNT HAVE ASKED.

maybe its different in the baseball umpiring world, but in the real world, when someone asks a question, its most often bc they dont the answer. if your boss asked you if you are working tomorrow, would you reply "am i on the schedule?" of course you wouldnt and of course your boss would think you are being a prick. if your spouse (if thats possible) asked you if its supposed to be sunny out tomorrow, would you reply "what does the forecast say?" of course you wouldnt, unless you wanted to get slapped in the face.

its amazing how quiet this thread got. its almost as if mr jenkins werent scurrying away back onto his high horse, just waiting for his next chance to pounce on an innocent rules question, after being shown the lunacy in his ways.

steveshane,

Thanks for your input.

You got your answer, so how about you just run along now?

Your comments are ill-informed and absurd.

Bob actually provides an immense amount of value to the content of this forum, while you provide "less than zero".

JM

Actually, I ran into Steve over the weekend.

I was in the local sporting goods store and he was asking the manager where he could find a bat with hands attached to it. ;)

For one, if my boss didn't know if I was working tomorrow, I'd have to make assumptions he's an idiot, since we have a leave calendar, and I keep my boss informed.

But more importantly: you're neither my boss nor my wife. So it's really irrelevant how I respond to them. And actually, since you AREN'T my boss or wife, you're MORE likely to get the sarcastic version.

And let's not forget: you're on an officials forum, asking a question that isn't an ridiculously easy one, but certainly one that can be answered on one's own by looking for it. That's what we do as officials - study the rules. You don't want to? Go to a different place to look for it. Or at least don't wait until your feelings get hurt to mention that you're not an umpire, but a casual fan.

Mr Jenkins didn't scurry away; he was tired of dealing with your whining. Go away now.

Wow! What a great read. A running two hour thread of bullshiite.........:(

steve, you've been around here long enough to not be surprised when you get slapped around for being lazy. Please quit acting like a victim.

I thought there was no crying in Baseball?

Wow.

His answer wasn't wise@$$ or sarcastic. Generally, we assume posters here to be umpires. if you aren't one, it helps to say so... If someone comes here and asks a question as simple as this one, there's nothing wrong with the answerer walking the asker through the logic behind how the answer should have been derived. Telling an umpire the answer without telling him why or leading him the way is like giving someone a fish instead of teaching him how to fish.

If there's a high horse here, sir ... it is you that is on it.

Wow... don't feed the trolls, guys.

Bob's answer was not sarcastic. It might have come across as patronizing, but I don't think it was meant that way. A sarcastic answer would have been:

"Sure the run counts. The batter hit the ball over the fence, didn't he? It doesn't matter what any other runners do or how many outs there are. (See Smitty's Guide to Baseball Rules, page 214.) Two things always to remember in baseball: (1) the batter's run always counts on a home run, and (2) the hands are part of the bat."

The only part of the answer that bothered me was preceeding.

Your assumed answer is incorrect, so we would necessarily have to show you the rule (again):

If the batter-runner missed 1B and was appealed, that would qualify under exception #1 and no runs would score. But it was 3B that was missed, so this doesn't apply.

There were no force outs, so exception #2 doesn't apply.

The batter (who missed 3B) was the trailing runner, so exception #3 doesn't apply.

Therefore, score the other runners.

So why the hell are you on this site asking simple questions that can be easily researched by someone who does care and complaining about answers received? Wrong place to play with your attitude.

You will find the answers under rule 11.

1. What day of the week is it? There are different rules dpending upon which day you are talking about.

2. Does this run mean game over and we get to go home

3. Does the kid who hit the HR have a GLM

4. What mood I am in. If I had a fight with the wife I might want to stay longer so I most likely will NOT count the run. vs. a situation where the temps are in the 90's and the guys are going out for some cold ones after the game then the run counts.

It a nutshell the answer to your question is

IT DEPENDS

Pete Booth

Most excellent! LOL