TB @ MIN - "Missed" Tag at 3B in the 10th :eek:

[Ump Rube]

Here is something else that I noticed when thinking about it some more (after reading other comments). Where is the call? If you are going to make a no-tag call it had better be immediate and loud.

Looking at the "live" wide-angle, the call is not made until the runner reaches 3B, not when the tag is missed. This makes me think that he either blinked or wanted to screw it up.

Your thoughts?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Ump Rube

wanted to screw it up.

Unless you think he's related to Tim Donaghy, I'm pretty sure this isn't it.

[Ump Rube]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Unless you think he's related to Tim Donaghy, I'm pretty sure this isn't it.

I don't think he did, it was merely hyperbole.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by Ump Rube

Here is something else that I noticed when thinking about it some more (after reading other comments). Where is the call? If you are going to make a no-tag call it had better be immediate and loud.

Looking at the "live" wide-angle, the call is not made until the runner reaches 3B, not when the tag is missed. This makes me think that he either blinked or wanted to screw it up.

Your thoughts?

Making an out call when the tag is applied takes care of this.

Not making an out call when the tag is missed (and the runner has not reached the base) also takes care of this.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Ump Rube

Here is something else that I noticed when thinking about it some more (after reading other comments). Where is the call? If you are going to make a no-tag call it had better be immediate and loud.

Looking at the "live" wide-angle, the call is not made until the runner reaches 3B, not when the tag is missed. This makes me think that he either blinked or wanted to screw it up.

Your thoughts?

I completely disagree with you. He should do nothing. Because I think you only need one signal. He is not safe until he gets back to the base, not in the middle of the running lane where a possible tag might be made. One signal and one call. Because is he going to give multiple tag signals on several tag attempts and then call him out when he is finally out?

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I completely disagree with you. He should do nothing. Because I think you only need one signal. He is not safe until he gets back to the base, not in the middle of the running lane where a possible tag might be made. One signal and one call. Because is he going to give multiple tag signals on several tag attempts and then call him out when he is finally out?

Peace

The tag was a "play" and deserves a call. If the tag had been missed, then both the runer and the fielder need to know it so they can then act appropriately.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The tag was a "play" and deserves a call. If the tag had been missed, then both the runer and the fielder need to know it so they can then act appropriately.

I disagree. I think he is not safe until he gets the the bag. I am not going to give safe signals all the way up the line until there is a tag.

The runner in this play knew exactly what to do, he ran to the next base.

Peace

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think he is not safe until he gets the the bag.

No, he's safe until he's out.

Many umpires don't give the safe signal on a tag play away from the base. Most don't feel it's needed -- unless he's out.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by yawetag

No, he's safe until he's out.

Many umpires don't give the safe signal on a tag play away from the base. Most don't feel it's needed -- unless he's out.

I agree with both sides. Giving the safe signal on a tag attempt between the bases let everybody know that you saw the attempt, including your partners.

Depending on who I'm working with...if I don't see a signal I may or may not trust my partner to have been watching...it also might save a trip out to the field from "Skip" if he sees the safe signal.

Not saying either opinion is right or wrong...but I do think there's a mechanic that asks the base umpire to signal safe if there's no tag on a tag attempt unless the ball comes out or something.

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I disagree. I think he is not safe until he gets the the bag. I am not going to give safe signals all the way up the line until there is a tag.

The runner in this play knew exactly what to do, he ran to the next base.

Peace

You're gonna give a safe sign if he's tagged, Jeff?

[umpjong]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The tag was a "play" and deserves a call. If the tag had been missed, then both the runer and the fielder need to know it so they can then act appropriately.

Bob is correct, (as usual) even the CCA manual addresses this under general principles.

1. Umpires shall make a signal on all calls with the exception of "ball" and an obvious catch of a fly ball. Signals are to be visible, crisp and clear. Voice calls should be clearly audible.

2. All signals should project decisiveness to the teams, fans and media. Signals should not be slow to the point of appearing uncertain or causing confusion for the participants, fans or media.

I honestly think (my opinion) the umpire in this case had a brain fart and let the runner convince him there was no tag.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by umpjong

Bob is correct, (as usual) even the CCA manual addresses this under general principles.

1. Umpires shall make a signal on all calls with the exception of "ball" and an obvious catch of a fly ball. Signals are to be visible, crisp and clear. Voice calls should be clearly audible.

2. All signals should project decisiveness to the teams, fans and media. Signals should not be slow to the point of appearing uncertain or causing confusion for the participants, fans or media.

I honestly think (my opinion) the umpire in this case had a brain fart and let the runner convince him there was no tag.

Actually we were not talking about a specific rules set. So whatever you do is based on the level and what you feel you want to do. I would not do this in a NCAA game either. I think it is not necessary. Mechanics are ultimately guides anyway. If they were not every umpire would only use the same plate mechanics and they clearly do not.

Peace