Lightning/Thunder Delay

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by scarolinablue

On the topic, I have a game management question. Sitch: Working an American Legion game last week. "Threatening" skies to begin with, and with the visitors coming out for the bottom of the first, a nasty bolt threaded across the right field sky - about 12 seconds to the thunderclap, so only about 2-3 miles away. I cleared the field. We spend the next 75 minutes waiting out a lightning delay - looking at radar, we were right on the edge of a huge, slow-moving storm, but didn't get more than a couple of drops of rain. However, the lightning was always within a couple of miles.

Eventually, the storm wrapped around us and the bottom fell out, and we finally called the game. The problem I had was this - I had cleared the field due to the lightning. After about 30 minutes, and no rain, but the lightning threat was still there, the players (and some coaches) started trickling back onto the field - throwing, playing pepper, and generally horsing around. There was no way I would have allowed this to happen if I were the coach, and expressed this to the GM, and was waved off. This did not sit well with me, but I let it go, and prayed like crazy nobody got hit by lightning. In hindsight, I will not allow teams to go back on the field if at all possible, but I felt somewhat powerless once I had suspended the game, and was met with indifference by game management. What would you do in this situation?

Screw Game Management. Once the game starts, YOU are in charge of the field, and YOU are in charge of whether the game starts again. It's your field - you cleared it for a reason, it should stay clear for a reason.

[MD Longhorn]

Obviously, Pete - from my above post, I disagree wholeheartedly.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Obviously, Pete - from my above post, I disagree wholeheartedly.

FWIW, I agree with Pete. Stop the game, get yourself to a safe place. The rest is the coach's / BoD's responsibility.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Screw Game Management. Once the game starts, YOU are in charge of the field, and YOU are in charge of whether the game starts again. It's your field - you cleared it for a reason, it should stay clear for a reason.

+1

If game management insisted that I restart a game before 30 minutes were up, I'd refuse (nicely, and with an explanation, but still).

I'd like to think I'd get my way on this point, and that they wouldn't intentionally endanger anyone. If they did, I'd leave.

[PeteBooth]

You are correct once the game STARTS. The game is NOW suspended and you have NO jurisdiction on what happens there-after. The umpires have to go to safety to and we as umpires might not even be near the field depending on the field demensions. When the game is in OUR control we do our job according to the 30-30 rule.

We are NOT babysitters. The poster said Legion baseball which means young adults at the age of 19 and under. Some are in college.

It's like this.

Assume we get to the game and it starts to rain. We stop the game. After the rain passes, the HT does their best to get the field ready for play but to no avail.

The HC comes to you as UIC and says "Blue the field is unplayable we are done for today"

According to you it is YOUR field so are you going to override the HC and say I do not care what you think IMO, the field is playable and we are going to finish.

Are you going to stand there and EJ every player and coach that goes onto the field in which you vacted?

How about you call the game and you are on your way to the car and the players have practice afterwards etc. Going to say something then as well.

Pete Booth

[MD Longhorn]

You know, I had spelled all that out and deleted it as unnecessary ... but I forgot the audience.

Obviously, if umpire says play and Field admin says no, it's no. Just as if umpire says no and Field admin says yes, it's no.

And no, if umpire clears the field, it does not remove the responsibility of the umpire - please show me what makes you think that. Umpire is in charge of the field from Play ball to Ballgame.

[PeteBooth]

In FED they specifically address when umpire jurisdiction begins and when it ends. In a nusthell, Umpire jurisdiction ends when we leave the field.

In the situation being discussed we vacate the area and then LEAVE the field and go to a safe spot. ONCE we LEAVE the field our jurisdiction ends. Players running onto the field AFTER we vacate the premises is now the responsibility of the AD/Coaches / league administrators / etc.

Pete Booth

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

In FED they specifically address when umpire jurisdiction begins and when it ends. In a nusthell, Umpire jurisdiction ends when we leave the field.

In the situation being discussed we vacate the area and then LEAVE the field and go to a safe spot. ONCE we LEAVE the field our jurisdiction ends. Players running onto the field AFTER we vacate the premises is now the responsibility of the AD/Coaches / league administrators / etc.

Pete Booth

Pete,

That is incorrect. What the FED rule book actually says is (my emphasis):

Umpire juridstiction ...ends when the umpires leave the playing field at the conclusion of the game.

Since the game has not "concluded", the fact that the umpires leave the field for shelter does not terminate their juridstiction.

I concur with mbcrowder.

JM

[PeteBooth]

The rule does not SPECIFICALLY address the situation at hand. The rule "assumes" a normal run of the mill game NOT a suspended game.

The game UNTIL resumed is for all practical purposes "concluded" at the time we leave the field.

I already brought up this point.

We get to the game and the rains come and the game is haulted. No differerent then if we FIRST arrive at the game and the HT is trying to get the field ready. In other words the decision to play or not to play PRIOR to us taking JURSIDICTION is with the HC or AD. Once we take the field THEN it's our decision whether to play or not.

Same thing here. We vacate the premises in accordance with the 30/30 rule.

If the players / coaches go back ONTO the field PRIOR to 30/30, it is NOT our responsibility. That responsibility rests with the AD/coaches / league administrators etc. Depending upon the field, we most likely are NOT at the field. We are in safety ourselves.

I will ask you this - How will you stop the players / coaches from going back out onto the field?

Are you going to start taking numbers and EJing anyone who enters the field?

Pete Booth

[Paul L]

What are you going to say when a deceased player's family's lawyer says to a teary-eyed jury:
"This young boy would be alive today if the defendant, Pete Booth, had used his authority to eject players who persisted in being on his field in spite of the thirty-minute lightning rule, and he could have forfeited the game if ejection failed to clear the field. But no, he simply sat in his car, knowing that this young boy was in deadly danger on his field, and did nothing to prevent that boy's needless death, even though it was the job Mr. Booth accepted and for which he was paid. Please award this family Mr. Booth's life savings and more."?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

The rule does not SPECIFICALLY address the situation at hand. The rule "assumes" a normal run of the mill game NOT a suspended game.

The game UNTIL resumed is for all practical purposes "concluded" at the time we leave the field.

I already brought up this point.

We get to the game and the rains come and the game is haulted. No differerent then if we FIRST arrive at the game and the HT is trying to get the field ready. In other words the decision to play or not to play PRIOR to us taking JURSIDICTION is with the HC or AD. Once we take the field THEN it's our decision whether to play or not.

Same thing here. We vacate the premises in accordance with the 30/30 rule.

If the players / coaches go back ONTO the field PRIOR to 30/30, it is NOT our responsibility. That responsibility rests with the AD/coaches / league administrators etc. Depending upon the field, we most likely are NOT at the field. We are in safety ourselves.

I will ask you this - How will you stop the players / coaches from going back out onto the field?

Are you going to start taking numbers and EJing anyone who enters the field?

Pete Booth

For a guy who wants the death sentence for malicious contact you're pretty lax on this one.