Valid pitching appearance?

[fongw2]

Hi. My son is in a Bantam house league and I volunteered to coach this year as they are always short. I have no playing experience but I do have a basic understanding of the game though clearly not all of the rules yet.

Last night during my first game, I was adjusting my line up due to a no show and an injury. During the bottom of the 5th inning as my players were taking the field, my 6th inning pitcher ran out and picked up the ball on the mound. I immediately called him back and sent the 5th inning pitcher out. The 2nd umpire then came over and told me that the 6th inning pitcher was no longer eligible to pitch because he had touched the game ball on the mound. Apparently this was considered an 'appearance' and by recalling him, I had technically 'yanked' him from the game.

I guess my only question is: "Does it really count as an appearance even if he did not throw a warm up pitch?".

Personally I thought this ruling was a little harsh for a house league game but rules are rules like some of the obscure ones in golf. I guess I wanted a 'mulligan' and didn't get it.

Thanks!

[bob jenkins]

You need to find the "house league" rules on this.

I wouldn't charge the kid with an appearance, but this kind of stuff doesn't happen at the levels I do.

[jicecone]

3.08
(a) If no announcement of a substitution is made, the substitute shall be considered as having entered the game when—
(1) If a pitcher, he takes his place on the pitcher’s plate;

This is OBR rules and is pretty common. For a house league I am not so sure I would worry however, I am sure the umpire was just trying to do his job and enforce the rules by the book.

[waltjp]

Wrong. Just wrong.

My understanding is that Bantam rules are based on OBR (Major League Rules).

OBR 3.08

(a) If no announcement of a substitution is made, the substitute shall be considered as having entered the game when—

(1) If a pitcher, he takes his place on the pitcher’s plate;

Meaning the substitute pitcher must be on the rubber. Assuming this did happen, that pitcher is then required to face at least 1 batter.

OBR 3.05

(b) If the pitcher is replaced, the substitute pitcher shall pitch to the batter then at bat, or any substitute batter, until such batter is put out or reaches first base, or until the offensive team is put out, unless the substitute pitcher sustains injury or illness which, in the umpire-in-chief’s judgment, incapacitates him for further play as a pitcher.

[MD Longhorn]

Touching the game ball on the mound is nothing. Toeing the rubber with the ball in your hand or glove is. The umpire was wrong.

[pruett3]

Yep. Until the kid throws a warm up pitch you've got nothing. Umpire needs to use common sense. Especially in a house league. I hope you're little third baseman doesn't jokingly pick up the ball between innings and jump on the mound. Umpires really need to crack down on that sort of deception.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by pruett3

Yep. Until the kid throws a warm up pitch you've got nothing. Umpire needs to use common sense. Especially in a house league. I hope you're little third baseman doesn't jokingly pick up the ball between innings and jump on the mound. Umpires really need to crack down on that sort of deception.

On OBR you only need to toe rthe rubber - no warm-up pitch involved.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by pruett3

Yep. Until the kid throws a warm up pitch you've got nothing.

sigh...

[fongw2]

Okay so if I'm reading this correctly, if my pitcher actually touched the pitching rubber as he bent down to pick up the ball, regardless of whether he throws a warm up pitch or not, it would count as an appearance which answers my question of whether he needed to actually pitch or just touch the ball.

I can't recall if he did that, (he might have), but it looked to me like he just walked over and picked up the ball which was just in the vicinity of the mound, (okay just the gravel as our parks don't have real mounds!), where the previous pitcher on the other team dropped it.

All in all, I guess what bugs me the most is that I didn't just get a courtesy 'warning' and instead had to re-juggle my lineup again as my closer was now effectively 'out' and everyone around me had a 'huh?' look on their faces.

Oh well, it was my mistake and it is a lesson learned and I won't be doing that ever again!

Thanks for the responses.

[MD Longhorn]

I have to admit ... of all the rules in all the codes of softball or baseball, this rule is the dumbest. Well, 2nd dumbest. This rule can thank the LL poof rule for letting it avoid being the dumbest.

[pruett3]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I have to admit ... of all the rules in all the codes of softball or baseball, this rule is the dumbest. Well, 2nd dumbest. This rule can thank the LL poof rule for letting it avoid being the dumbest.

I always thought the 3rd to 1st move by a right-handed pitcher was the dumbest. It's clearly deceiving the runner. I've never understood why a lefty has to throw to 1st but a righty doesn't have to throw to 3rd (on the same move).

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by pruett3

I always thought the 3rd to 1st move by a right-handed pitcher was the dumbest. It's clearly deceiving the runner. I've never understood why a lefty has to throw to 1st but a righty doesn't have to throw to 3rd (on the same move).

Might be because the rules say you can't feint a throw to 1B while in contact with the rubber. It says nothing about feinting to 2B or 3B other than you have to step in the direction of the base. RHP can't jump-turn and not throw to 1B, but a LHP can do the same move to 3B and not throw...

Not the "same move" - 1B is treated differently

A LHP raising his free foot straight up and coming to 1B is deceiving to the runner too. A pick off move is designed to deceive the runner.

[pruett3]

It seems like the same move to me. Just to a different base. I understand what the rule says. Why is 1st base treated differently than any other base?

[johnnyg08]

I really don't know other than that's just the way the rule is written. Maybe because that's where the most runners are as well as the move SB attempts...so they do it to keep the game fair for the offense and defense?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by pruett3

It seems like the same move to me. Just to a different base. I understand what the rule says. Why is 1st base treated differently than any other base?

It's been that way for over a century. (First, feints to all bases were allowed, then no feints were allowed (this lasted for only a short time -- 1 year?), then the current rule -- no feints to first.)

I know that doesn't answer "why" it's this way -- but I don't see it changing soon.