Pre-game umpire conference

[David B]

Originally Posted by charliej47

I also have people who state “Don’t come to me if I’m not in the “A” spot on check-swings as I will mirror whatever you call.” I always watch the pitcher when I’m BU and swivel my head to follow the ball to the batter and I feel that I have been able to tell on the check-swing from B or C.

I hear the same thing more and more. You can see check swing just as good in B or C as you can in A - don't make any sense. However, even had an assignor this season say - don't ask.

I asked the typical question - why not? And of course he had no answer, just something about how it looked.

Umpires are a team and we have to help each other out period - that includes check swings when needed.

thanks
David

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by David B

I hear the same thing more and more. You can see check swing just as good in B or C as you can in A - don't make any sense. However, even had an assignor this season say - don't ask.

How many times have you changed the call to a strike from B and C? How often does the OC say something to the effect of "You can't tell from there!"

While I agree that you should go to your partner, and the partner should give their honest answer to the appeal, it does have the perception of being difficult to call from that location.

[SanDiegoSteve]

A, B, C, D...E through Z, the center field bleachers...it doesn't matter. I can tell if a player offered at a pitch from just about anywhere. Anybody that says something like "you can't tell from there" is a moron and should just pack up their gear and go away.

[BK47]

I'd like to mirror jdmara, you cant fix stupid and unfortunately you cant shoot them either.

I've only been umpiring for 5 years, and with every new partner I get, wheather they are new themselves or a mulity-year vet, I always do a pregame. I have been able to learn from the vets and have been able to teach the newbees as well. I feel my game has gotten better with learning from others as well as my past mistakes. But you guys are correct, trying to do a pregame with some is hard. Some think they know it all and can not benefit from a little pregame reasurance. And when you do talk with them about some simple coverages they just look at you like "No Sh*t" but when the game gets going that exact coverage brakes down somehow.

As for help on check swings, I will tell my partner to give me what he has. I am not so damn hung up on myself that he "MUST" agree with me. If I missed it call it, but he better call what he has, not to just agree with me, thats all I ask.

[David B]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

A, B, C, D...E through Z, the center field bleachers...it doesn't matter. I can tell if a player offered at a pitch from just about anywhere. Anybody that says something like "you can't tell from there" is a moron and should just pack up their gear and go away.

Thank you, could not have said it more clearly. When we work three man I always say the best place to see it is from D.

The only reason you hear stupid coaches say "you can't tell from there" is because there are dumb umpires who have told them, "i can't see it from there".

Thanks
David

[DG]

I have never had a partner who refused a pre-game. If I have someone with many years experience who I have not worked with I will go through my standard pre-game and most of the time they just nod and say OK, or occasionally ask a question, or offer suggestion. If I have worked with the same partner many times I don't go through the motion. I know what he will do and he knows what I will do.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by yawetag

How many times have you changed the call to a strike from B and C? How often does the OC say something to the effect of "You can't tell from there!"

While I agree that you should go to your partner, and the partner should give their honest answer to the appeal, it does have the perception of being difficult to call from that location.

If my first instinct is, "he offered," I'll ring it any time -- no matter if I'm in A, B, C, D, E, I, E, I, or O. And I couldn't possibly care what a coach says -- he's not allowed to argue balls and strikes.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

If my first instinct is, "he offered," I'll ring it any time -- no matter if I'm in A, B, C, D, E, I, E, I, or O.

Old McFronny had a farm.....

[David B]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

If my first instinct is, "he offered," I'll ring it any time -- no matter if I'm in A, B, C, D, E, I, E, I, or O. And I couldn't possibly care what a coach says -- he's not allowed to argue balls and strikes.

Yea I welcome the coach to come out and argue. It's a short conversation.

Thanks
David

[SAump]

Originally Posted by David B

Yea I welcome the coach to come out and argue. It's a short conversation.

Thanks
David

I don't cover check swing appeals in my pre-game with my partner.

[Tim C]

As I have said so many times before:

An umpire that claims you cannot call a checked (unchecked) swing from "inside" either does not understand the checked/unchecked swing rule or does not have the guts to make the call.

T

[BretMan]

My standard pre-game spiel for checked swings (if I'm the plate umpire) is to tell my partner that I might check with him no matter what position he's in. If he honestly couldn't tell if the batter went, whether it's because of the disadvantage of his positioning or any other reason, then make like Nancy Reagan and "Just say NO" (and give a safe signal- Nancy always forgot that part).

If I'm on the bases, I tell him to feel free to come to me no matter where I'm at and I'll give him my honest evaluation of the swing. If I'm not sure or can't tell if he went, I'm not going to overrule his call.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by yawetag

How many times have you changed the call to a strike from B and C? How often does the OC say something to the effect of "You can't tell from there!"

I always take that at confirmation that I got the call right.

It's your job to get it right from B or C (and A and D). Do it.

[BretMan]

If the guy I'm working with seems reluctant to get into coverages and such pre-game, I'll try to at least hit a few points where we are likely to have problems. It kind of depends on how you broach the subject. Some guys just seem to take being told how something should be handled as an affront to their knowledge and experience and it puts them on the defensive.

Instead of saying, "This is what we're going to do", I'll ask, "What happens if...". At least that way you're going to get some response and get some dialog going, plus get a feel for your partner's experience level and expectations.

This season most of my partners have been receptive to a good pre-game and, I'd like to think as a result, I can't really remember anything that came up where we had any problems in coverage or communication.

It helps that all of my games so far have been high school games with guys in the same association- an association that stresses the pre-game with your partner as a responsibility, provides a full page checklist of things to discuss and is proactive in training. This is a big association, with nearly 400 members, that we're told is one of the largest in the country. Of the 25-30 high school games I worked, I never worked with the same partner twice.

But the season is young! Once the travel and tournament seasons get going, I'll be working with more and more umpires from outside the area and you never know what you're going to get.

A couple of the more interesting pre-games I've had of late...

Worked with one guy this year who was doing his first game ever! He shows up at the field already dressed for the plate, so I let him have at it. We had lots of time to kill (the first game was running late) so I gave this guy about a half hour pre-game (that was more like a mini-rule and mechanics clinic).

Then the game started and I think this guy forgot EVERYTHING we had talked about!

Last year I had a guy who made a big deal of how he worked "minor league ball" and came off as a know-it-all. When I started to ask him about coverages, he cuts me off and says, "The base umpire has all plays on the bases, the plate umpire has all plays at the plate". It went downhill from there. This guy was practically inventing new mechanics at will. When I mentioned how something was described "in the umpire manual" he went on some tirade about how the manual was "stupid" and his way was better.

At some point, you just have to give up and be thankful that you'll likely never have to work with this partner again!