What do you do?

[yawetag]

There's a reason I'm asking:

Fed rules. In the 4th inning, OC comes to you after a routine fly to F8. "Hey, Blue, #15's playing CF. I don't have him entering the game in my scorebook." A check of your lineup card shows the same -- #15 isn't in the lineup, but is listed as a substitute.

What do you do?

(cross-posted to several sites)

[mbyron]

Step 1: To defense's dugout: "Coach, who did #15 sub for?"

Step 2: Mark lineup accordingly.

Step 3: Play.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Step 1: To defense's dugout: "Coach, who did #15 sub for?"

Step 2: Mark lineup accordingly.

Step 3: Play.

4. Read 3.1.1B, D, F

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

4. Read 3.1.1B, D, F

Bookworm.

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Step 1: To defense's dugout: "Coach, who did #15 sub for?"

Step 2: Mark lineup accordingly.

Step 3: Play.

You forgot step 4: Explain to offensive coach that the rule book states there is no penalty for an unreported substitution if otherwise legal.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

You forgot step 4: Explain to offensive coach that the rule book states there is no penalty for an unreported substitution if otherwise legal.

I don't provide rules clinics on the diamond. Maybe that's just me.

[DG]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I don't provide rules clinics on the diamond. Maybe that's just me.

How do you get by with not explaining the rules, when the coach questions a ruling?

[yawetag]

I asked for a reason. We all know the rule of an unreported, eligible substitution. However, I found a way that a coach in Fed, and probably in any rulecode, can have a second DH.

The DC in my original question handed a lineup card with a DH for F1. F1 has a crappy swing, but he can pitch better than anyone in the district. The coach uses the DH to put in Jelly-Arm Tommy, his speedster who can't throw ten feet.

However, the coach has another problem. John, his star F8, who can catch up to any ball hit to the outfield, can't hit, either. Bubba, who couldn't catch a (literal) can of corn, has the best swing the coach has ever seen.

The coach, knowing there's no penalty, does the following: He puts Bubba on the lineup card. The coach tells Bubba to stay in the dugout when the team takes the field, and then tells John that he's playing CF, but Bubba's hitting for him. The coach tells John, "Now son, if anyone asks, tell them you relieved Bubba in center field this inning, okay?"

The plan is basically flawless. If John's noticed playing, it's a simple substitution with no penalty. If he's winning, he'll keep the star fielder in the game. If he's losing, he might re-enter Bubba when the time to bat comes back up. If John *isn't* noticed (let's be fair -- he probably won't be) playing, then the coach has a free DH.

There's absolutely no penalty to the coach. He could try this EVERY game of the year and NEVER have anything happen, other than a substitution. The coach might get caught once a year, but the umpire won't file anything about it -- there's no reason to. Most likely, the coach will have different umpires all year, so the umpires won't know he's been caught before.

I'd be willing to bet that there is at least one coach in your area that does this. Is there anyway to stop it? Not really. Do I think there should be? Not really. It's simply a way for a coach to take advantage of the rules.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by DG

How do you get by with not explaining the rules, when the coach questions a ruling?

I will answer a coach's question by citing a rule. I will not discuss, explain, teach, expatiate, or otherwise delay the game any longer than absolutely necessary to get the coach off the field.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by yawetag

I'd be willing to bet that there is at least one coach in your area that does this. Is there anyway to stop it? Not really. Do I think there should be? Not really. It's simply a way for a coach to take advantage of the rules.

And I'd be willing to bet that nobody around here does this. They know each others' rosters too well and would notice it before the wrong kid took a warmup toss.

I disagree that there's no penalty under FED rules. I could deal with it under 3-3-1g if I knew it was deliberate. If anyone were doing this around here, everyone would know it. Or the opposing coach might report it in the 4th inning, for example, and say that it has been happening all game long.

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by mbyron

And I'd be willing to bet that nobody around here does this. They know each others' rosters too well and would notice it before the wrong kid took a warmup toss.

I disagree that there's no penalty under FED rules. I could deal with it under 3-3-1g if I knew it was deliberate. If anyone were doing this around here, everyone would know it. Or the opposing coach might report it in the 4th inning, for example, and say that it has been happening all game long.

...and (correct me if I'm wrong) if it's happened more than once and brought to your attention after the second or subsequent time, now you've got an illegal substitute (ineligible re-entry) and a penalty.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by RadioBlue

...and (correct me if I'm wrong) if it's happened more than once and brought to your attention after the second or subsequent time, now you've got an illegal substitute (ineligible re-entry) and a penalty.

I've thought about this too, and I don't think we could actually get there in a game.

The problem is, at the point where I'd enforce an illegal substitution penalty, either I have certain knowledge of the earlier substitutions or I don't.

If I know about it, I should have disallowed the illegal substitution ("Coach, he can't re-enter in CF, he's already re-entered once.").

OTOH, if I don't know about it, then I can't enforce it as illegal substitution (not enough evidence, can't take the opponent's word for it, etc.).