Balk???

[Tim C]

"His rationale was that the ball touched the ground after being in the set position."

OK, got me. I did not know that was illegal UNLESS the ball was dropped?

Just remember:

It Is Impossible To Balk To An Occupied Second Base.

T

[Robert E. Harrison]

As the pitcher is turning to 2nd base the ball pops out and both feet are on the ground (gaining distance and direction with non pivot) before the ball hits the ground?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Robert E. Harrison

As the pitcher is turning to 2nd base the ball pops out and both feet are on the ground (gaining distance and direction with non pivot) before the ball hits the ground?

Then it's a step and he's complied with the requirement. The rest is just an awkward feint.

[TussAgee11]

I see how you're right on this T, what I listed are other things that are balks no matter if 2nd base is involved or not. How about this rule:

The act of F1 making a move to an occupied 2nd base can never, by itself, be a balk.

[Tim C]

Like I freakin' care what "Mr. Umpire" thinks . . . he has documented his ignorance mant times.

" . . . as to start a turn toward 2B. His feet never moved, he did not step toward 2B. Rules . . .

That sounds like a balk . . . a balk for failing to deliver the pitch.

Mbyron understands the statement better than many:

All the things list by Tuss are obviously balks. But none would be strictly defined as a balk to second base.

Umpires such as Finnerty and "Mr. Umpire" need to take a pill and settle down.

As a teaching device saying it is impossible to balk to an occupied second base sets the thought that a base (other than first) has little (or nothing) to do with balking to that base.

"Mr. Umpire" makes me very happy that he has blocked my posts . . . in fact I couldn't be happier.

I like to share in formation with "real" umpires.

Kevin, I called Ken Burns and got authorization to post the items above.

T

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Umpires such as Finnerty and "Mr. Umpire" need to take a pill and settle down.

"Mr. Umpire" makes me very happy that he has blocked my posts . . . in fact I couldn't be happier.

T

Tim C:

You really misunderstood me. I don't have you on ignore, I have KF, with whom I assumed you were debating, on ignore. I mean, how could I have quoted your post if I had you on ignore.

I have not disagreed with a post of yours, that I can recall, in the four years I've been here. And I assure you. I am a real umpire, perhaps not to your level, but up to Div III conference and D-1 non conference.

Please re-read my post. I think you'll see that you jumped to an unwarranted conclusion.

And PLEASE don't lump me with KF. I know that I don't know everything.

Edited to add: Tim C, you have a PM

[TussAgee11]

It is totally possible to balk on a move to second base.

1) RHP F1 in windup. Bases loaded. He drops a heel and then turns and steps directly to 2nd. Balk. Started and stopped.

2) RHP F1 in set. He raises free foot, brings it down, and makes contact with the dirt on the homeplate side of the rubber, then scrapes it over the rubber in his step. Balk. No step.

3) RHP F1 in windup with R2 only. Begins normal pitching motion, free foot comes back, then up, and now he realizes he's pitching in the windup with just R2. He steps to 2nd. Balk. Started and stopped.

I could come up with more. Yes, as a general rule, its rare and requires some unusual circumstances. But things happen. Never say never.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

It is totally possible to balk on a move to second base.

1) RHP F1 in windup. Bases loaded. He drops a heel and then turns and steps directly to 2nd. Balk. Started and stopped.

2) RHP F1 in set. He raises free foot, brings it down, and makes contact with the dirt on the homeplate side of the rubber, then scrapes it over the rubber in his step. Balk. No step.

3) RHP F1 in windup with R2 only. Begins normal pitching motion, free foot comes back, then up, and now he realizes he's pitching in the windup with just R2. He steps to 2nd. Balk. Started and stopped.

I could come up with more. Yes, as a general rule, its rare and requires some unusual circumstances. But things happen. Never say never.

As you've shown yourself, none of these is balking TO second base.

[TussAgee11]

I am just saying that declaring "it is impossible to balk to 2nd base" might be a bit misleading for somebody who is coming on here to learn, that's all. They may think no matter what the pitcher does, if he ends up going to 2nd, he's fine.

That's all. Its just how people may view the semantics of it.

[alillard88]

I really appreciate all the input. It is probably one of those situations I will never see again, but if I do, I will have more confidence in my opinion.

On a side note, I do not post often, but I do read this site religiously and have become a better umpire and basketball official as a result. Thanks

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

That's all. Its just how people may view the semantics of it.

Although that's true, semantics always determines meaning, so it's not terribly informative.

I believe Tee's point in intoning that it's impossible to balk to (an occupied) second base is to encourage newer umpires to realize that virtually any move to 2B is legal, in contrast to 1B.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Just remember:

It Is Impossible To Balk To An Occupied Second Base.

T

It's a silly statement that may have been cogent many years ago.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

It's a silly statement that may have been cogent many years ago.

Use it in my umpire training every year. My son is playing ball now, and we've had three balks called with R2 this season, and none of them were actual balks.

The umpires could have used my training.

The main problem with umpires today is they don't study the rules, they just go by what they "feel" or something.

Last night in a game I had "interference with fielder fielding a batted ball" and BI on play at the plate. Sadly most of the umpires I see today would probably not have called either one.

Thanks
David