batter/runner unintentionally kicks blocked pitch

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

JJ,

Had the batter become a runner on the uncaught third strike?

If yes, all runners, including the BR, are awarded two bases, TOP.

If no, the ball is dead and runners return.

JM

Wouldn't the runners get 2 anyway? Just like if the catcher kicked it into the dugout chasing it down. They'd get at least one base b/c the pitch went into DBT. I don't see them returning.

[UmpJM]

Darien,

The NCAA rule book contains the following Approved Ruling following it's third strike not caught rule:

A.R. 2--If, while attempting to advance to first base, the batter-runner unintentionally deflects the ball, the ball is live and in play. Exception – If there are less than two
outs and first base is occupied, the ball is dead and all runners return, unless the runner(s) are stealing on the pitch.

JM

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Darien,

The NCAA rule book contains the following Approved Ruling following it's third strike not caught rule:



JM

OK - well that's there in black and white, huh

My take on the "if not" portion was along the lines of it wasn't an uncaught 3rd strike - it was "just a pitch" - I wasn't thinking about the DK3 with less than 2 outs and 1B occupied as I read it.

Mis-read, my bad.

[TussAgee11]

You only give 2 from time of deflection if it either a) hits the backstop, goes back into the catcher, and then into DBT; b) the ball comes to rest and is then kicked in by the catcher; or c) the catcher intentionally kicks it into DBT. In a, the reasoning is once it kicks back into play it is no longer a pitched ball. In b, once it comes to rest, no longer a pitched ball. And in c, the catcher intentionally makes contact with a pitched ball, making him liable for whatever happens to it after that point.

If it is off the batter, I don't see how we can have anything but one base TOP. Same as if it never hit him. Its a pitched ball going into DBT. The ball hitting the batter after hitting the catcher on a 3rd strike does not change the status of the ball. It is still a pitched ball.

[JJ]

The ruling on the field, after much huddling and consulting of the rule book, was everyone was advanced 2 bases from the TOP. The book doesn't actually address this specific situation, but the logic was it was an unintentionally deflected pitch (as opposed to a pitch that had stopped rolling and was THEN kicked into DBT).
Neither coach argued - because nobody had ever seen it before and didn't know what the correct ruling was!

JJ

[TussAgee11]

How could the logic be that it was a deflected pitch, so they get 2??? Deflected pitch is still a pitch, so its 1 TOP.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

How could the logic be that it was a deflected pitch, so they get 2??? Deflected pitch is still a pitch, so its 1 TOP.

I didn't say it was RIGHT, I said this was the ruling on the field. I posted the incident hoping to gain more insight into what the correct ruling might have been. Of course you're correct that a deflected pitch is still a pitch, but the impetus for the ball going into the dugout was the kick, not the momentum of the pitch itself. That's why, when I had the incident described to me, I thought, "Hmmmm"...

JJ

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

How could the logic be that it was a deflected pitch, so they get 2??? Deflected pitch is still a pitch, so its 1 TOP.

There's a difference between a pitch that is deirectly deflected out of play (1 base, TOP), and a pitch which is missed and is subsequently deflected out of play. There, the award is two bases, but might be TOP or TOT, depending on the circumstances.

In OBR, see 7.05(h) AR (that's from an old book, so the numbering mayhave changed).

NCAA has a similar rule (8-3.0(4)). Althought it talks only about a fielder deflecting the pitch, I'd apply it to the batter deflecting the pitch.