Trapped 3rd Strike...

[boss21]

If the catcher traps the ball on his shin guard or any other equip. what is the correct call...

[UmpJM]

boss21,

Nothing, yet.

What happens next?

JM

[TussAgee11]

Does it meet the criteria under 2.00 CATCH? There is your answer.

[tjones1]

I'm going to guess what's next...

2 strikes on the batter, swings and misses the next pitch, catcher traps the ball on his shin guard, ump calls foul ball.. What is the correct call, batter never touched the pitch

Not a foul ball - batter swung and missed. The catcher must catch the ball in flight.

[JJ]

As long as the ball did not hit the ground before it got to the catcher, and as long as the catcher does not let the ball hit the ground after HE touches it, it's a strikeout (not a foul ball). Unfortunately for the plate umpire, since he called foul ball, he may have to eat the call and ultimately eject a disgruntled coach. Hopefully in the future he'll learn to let his brain process all the info of what happened and will get it right next time. Tough situation.

JJ

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by JJ

As long as the ball did not hit the ground before it got to the catcher, and as long as the catcher does not let the ball hit the ground after HE touches it, it's a strikeout (not a foul ball). Unfortunately for the plate umpire, since he called foul ball, he may have to eat the call and ultimately eject a disgruntled coach. Hopefully in the future he'll learn to let his brain process all the info of what happened and will get it right next time. Tough situation.

JJ

Hmmm...

In FED at least, a ball "in flight" that's mistakenly declared foul is still live (if it's caught). Is a foul tip a batted ball in flight?

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Hmmm...

Is a foul tip a batted ball in flight?

I think you just found another "mistake" in the rules Bob. By definition, a foul tip is a batted ball that is legally caught, and a batted ball is in flight until it has touched the ground or some object other than a fielder (including his equipment). Why then, are runners not required to tag up on a foul tip?

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Hmmm...

Is a foul tip a batted ball in flight?

No. A foul tip is a strike.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

No. A foul tip is a strike.

Well, once it's caught, yes.

But before that, under FED rules at least, it's a batted ball. And a ball that is declared "foul" (incorrectly by the umpire) must then hit the ground to become foul. If it doesn't hit the ground, then the play stands.

So, I think, "ball is tipped by the batter, caught by the catcher, declared foul by the umpire" is still a foul tip -- that is, it's a strike and in play.

This would be consistent with "ball hit in the air by the batter, declared foul by the umpire and caught by F3" -- the out stands and the ball is in play.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

... Is a foul tip a batted ball in flight?

Well, not any more. But it had to have been to properly be declared a foul tip.

I concur with bob.

JM

[jkumpire]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Well, once it's caught, yes.

But before that, under FED rules at least, it's a batted ball. And a ball that is declared "foul" (incorrectly by the umpire) must then hit the ground to become foul. If it doesn't hit the ground, then the play stands.

So, I think, "ball is tipped by the batter, caught by the catcher, declared foul by the umpire" is still a foul tip -- that is, it's a strike and in play.

This would be consistent with "ball hit in the air by the batter, declared foul by the umpire and caught by F3" -- the out stands and the ball is in play.

Gentlemen,

Please remember that once a ball is declared foul by an umpire, correctly or incorrectly, the ball is dead. By calling the ball foul, which we are assuming, the PU killed the play.

The original post was "strike 3 held against the shin guard," It never said what happened after that. We really need more information to tell our poster what happens. A lot of the posting here I agree with, but once we have a PU calling the ball foul, the ball is dead. It does not matter if F2 pins it across his gear or not, or the Batter tipped the pitch of not. the PU calls the ball foul, it's foul.

The play that is the closest analogy to the first post would be a bunt by the BR that is foul then goes fair. But if the PU sees the ball go foul and calls it foul before it is touched in foul ground, what do you have? You have a dead ball, the bunt is foul, even if the PU blew the call. You can't reburn the firewood.

[JJ]

Sorry, my wording wasn't great. A foul tip IS a foul ball, it's just a caught foul ball that goes directly from the bat to the catcher's hands and is legally caught (in FED, "by any fielder"). Linguists might argue that it's not a "foul" ball, rather, it's a "batted ball", but I'd be hard pressed to see any foul tip that is a fair ball .
I also was thinking the plate umpire had thought the ball hit the ground, which is why he called it foul, which is why I said "he might have to eat the call", because as others have posted here, once it's called foul it is foul "if uncaught) and the ball is dead. Then Bob came along and made the great point of the possibility of the umpire calling it foul even though it was caught, in which case it's a "play on" situation.
I'm with Bob here all the way. I just hadn't though of ALL the scenarios when I made my OP. I'll try and do better.

JJ

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

Gentlemen,

Please remember that once a ball is declared foul by an umpire, correctly or incorrectly, the ball is dead.

With one exception, under FED rules. See Case Play 2.16.1A for an example of that exception.

Admittedly, a foul tip probably isn't what FED had in mind when they crafted this interpretation a few years ago. But a foul tip is a batted ball and it could potentially be declared foul/dead when it shouldn't be. That kind of leaves the question open as to whether or not a foul tip inadvetantly declared foul/dead should be treated the same way as a fly ball down the lines, with respect to it having been caught before touching the ground.

None of which really has anything to do with the original question posted: "If (on the third strike) the catcher traps the ball on his shin guard or any other equip. what is the correct call..."

There's no mention of the bat actually touching the ball, so no matter what happens next this could never be a foul ball. There's no mention of the umpire having called it foul, so there's no need to go down that path. There's no mention of the ball having touched anything else before reaching the catcher, so I assume that the ball was still airbourne and in-flight when it was trapped.

If there are less than two outs and first base is occupied, the correct call is strike three, the batter is out and the ball remains live. Whether the catcher completes a legal catch of the ball or not is irrelevant. The batter is not entitled to try for first in this scenario.

If there are less than two outs and first base is not occupied, or anytime there are two outs, now we're going to have to see what happens next. If the catcher subsequently gains possession and control of the ball in either the hand or mitt, without it touching ground first, he has completed a legal catch. The batter is out and the ball remains live. If he does not complete a legal catch, then you have an uncaught third strike, the ball remains live and the batter is entitled to try for first base.

[bluehair]

For a batted ball to be a foul tip, it has to go directly to F2's hand/mitt. I guess the batted ball could have touched f2's mitt and then he bobbled it and trapped it on his shinguard for a foul tip. But maybe PU saw that it did not touch f2's glove, thought it was too sloppy to give the defense the benefit of the doubt and called it a foul ball. Unless there is slo-mo instant replay, no one is going to know if it touched f2's hand/mitt.

If PU sells it either way, I wouldn't have a problem.