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-   -   Legal or not..... (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/57406-legal-not.html)

cviverito Thu Mar 04, 2010 03:36pm

I've seen that and similar devices used.

jicecone Thu Mar 04, 2010 06:04pm

Until NFHS defines exactly what a "weighted bat" is, then unless it can be deemed unsafe. Let them Play

The rules are just not clear. "Only bats and devices designed to remain part of
the bat, such as weighted bats"

Is a weighted bat "a device that remains part of the bat"? Then its not a bat, its a part of the bat Blah, Blah Blah Blah Blah ........?????????????????:confused::confused::conf used:

dash_riprock Thu Mar 04, 2010 06:48pm

What about weighted hands?

ManInBlue Thu Mar 04, 2010 07:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jicecone (Post 666351)
Until NFHS defines exactly what a "weighted bat" is, then unless it can be deemed unsafe. Let them Play

The rules are just not clear. "Only bats and devices designed to remain part of
the bat, such as weighted bats"

Is a weighted bat "a device that remains part of the bat"? Then its not a bat, its a part of the bat Blah, Blah Blah Blah Blah ........?????????????????:confused::confused::conf used:

That brings up an interesting point. What about a dougnut? They are used all over the place, but they are not a device designed to remain part of the bat. So are they illegal? Playing devil's advocate here...This thing is closer to meeting the rules than doughnuts.

ManInBlue Thu Mar 04, 2010 07:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dash_riprock (Post 666361)
What about weighted hands?

They are part of a weighted bat!!:confused:

Matt Thu Mar 04, 2010 09:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManInBlue (Post 666368)
That brings up an interesting point. What about a dougnut? They are used all over the place, but they are not a device designed to remain part of the bat. So are they illegal? Playing devil's advocate here...This thing is closer to meeting the rules than doughnuts.

Both are legal, since both are mentioned as legal in 1-3-3.

ManInBlue Thu Mar 04, 2010 09:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt (Post 666380)
Both are legal, since both are mentioned as legal in 1-3-3.


I realize they are legal that's why I quoted the post above mine - To point out the "designed to remain part of the bat" which is where the rules quote ended - and donuts are not designed to remain part of the bat.

bossman72 Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty (Post 666169)
In the spirit of the rule, it is not a sledge hammer or some other such thing that creates more of a hazard. This is something designed as a weighted warm-up device that is decidedly bat-like.

I think I'll bring it up to the rules chairman, and I think I'll allow it until I hear otherwise, just like I did today.

amen

DG Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:00pm

I would allow, and not seek clarification. If the handle looks like a bat, and the other end is weighted, it's a weighted warmup bat.

SAump Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:04pm

Baseball Donuts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ManInBlue (Post 666368)
That brings up an interesting point. What about a dougnut? They are used all over the place, but they are not a device designed to remain part of the bat. So are they illegal? Playing devil's advocate here...This thing is closer to meeting the rules than doughnuts.

1-3-3 doesn't mention the batting sleeves which are legal and have replaced the original batting donuts which I believe are illegal. Thought they (LL and FED) said no to "original" baseball donuts. Reason for long weighted sleeves and new models of weighted bats being designed by manufacturers which do not "fly off" at the handle. Reason iron bars became popular around here. Concerns over safety issues brought about legal concerns. If donuts owners were broke to begin with, why pay more for the same amount of benefit?

Matt Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAump (Post 666405)
1-3-3 doesn't mention the batting sleeves which are legal and have replaced the original batting donuts which I believe are illegal. Thought they (LL and FED) said no to "original" baseball donuts. Reason for long weighted sleeves and new models of weighted bats being designed by manufacturers which do not "fly off" at the handle. Reason iron bars became popular around here. Concerns over safety issues brought about legal concerns. If donuts owners were broke to begin with, why pay more for the same amount of benefit?

Again, 1-3-3 specifically states donuts are legal.

LL banned donuts years ago. I assume that ban is still in place; haven't done a game there in over a decade.

SAump Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:31pm

Day Old Donuts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt (Post 666414)
Again, 1-3-3 specifically states donuts are legal.

LL banned donuts years ago. I assume that ban is still in place; haven't done a game there in over a decade.

I wikied baseball donut and saw a picture of Pudge swinging a bat in a Rangers uniform. The donut on his bat is the larger 6-inch legal version found across the country today. It isn't the bat-size 1-inch rubber coated iron donut popular 20 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_doughnut

If the little donut is sold by DiMarini and is legal, on which MLB club on-deck circle will I find it? Is there a major college baseball team swinging DiMarini bats along with the $7 Dimarini donuts in the on-deck circle?

http://www.weplaysports.com/bat/weight/

Publius Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umpmazza (Post 666162)
how or why do you not think this is a weighted bat/ warm up bat?

It doesn't have a barrel.

'No one is calling this a "bat" but a "weighted bat".'

I suppose I can concede that, if "weighted bat" is a compound noun. I read it as a noun modified by an adjective. For it to be a "weighted bat", it must first be a bat.

Regardless, I missed the question. Chris didn't ask if it was a bat, a weighted bat, or a bacon double cheeseburger; he asked if it was legal for a batter to have it in the on-deck circle under FED rules.

I don't think they're legal, and don't care. I won't ban them even if is determined they are not, just as I've never balked a "gorilla-arming" pitcher, made anybody get rid of "big-league chew", wrote a report over baseballs without a NFHS stamp, told anyone <i>sua sponte</i> to get rid of jewelry, restricted anyone to the dugout, or enforced a host of other FED stupidity, either.

bob jenkins Sat Mar 06, 2010 07:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAump (Post 666616)
I wikied baseball donut and saw a picture of Pudge swinging a bat in a Rangers uniform. The donut on his bat is the larger 6-inch legal version found across the country today. It isn't the bat-size 1-inch rubber coated iron donut popular 20 years ago.

Baseball doughnut - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If the little donut is sold by DiMarini and is legal, on which MLB club on-deck circle will I find it? Is there a major college baseball team swinging DiMarini bats along with the $7 Dimarini donuts in the on-deck circle?

Bat Weights

1) We're discussing (I think) FED rules, so "what's found in MLB on-deck circles" is irrelevant.

2) Just because something isn't found there, doesn't make it illegal. They are just as (or more) susceptible to trends as anyone else.

3) It's possible that having the weight distributed over a larger area provides some benefit to the batter (or at least that someone made that calim). Again, this has nothing to do with legality.

SAump Sat Mar 06, 2010 05:53pm

Vintage 1" donuts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 666643)
1) We're discussing (I think) FED rules, so "what's found in MLB on-deck circles" is irrelevant.

My point is the donut sleeve is legal in LL, HS, NCAA, MiLB and MLB. The fact that rule 1-3-3 states "batting donut" may reflect the age difference between those who write the rules and those who play the game on the field while using an approved batting donut sleeve in the warmup circle. Modern equipment generally replaces vintage equipment on the field.
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 666643)
2) Just because something isn't found there, doesn't make it illegal. They are just as (or more) susceptible to trends as anyone else.

The possibility of misrepresenting FED approval of the traditional batting donut looms. The legal question is, "What is the FED policy on the batting donut which LL baseball does not permit on the field?"


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