Infield Fly Enforcement

[Lapopez]

[This was touched upon in the dropped third strike thread but I didn't want to drift too far off.]

In that thread SanDiegoSteve said:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I agree 100% that both offense and defense are responsible for knowing the situation, but a strong verbal announcement of an Infield Fly is vital, especially involving borderline situations, as the IF rule is subject to umpire judgment, unlike the uncaught third strike rule, which is cut and dried.

I'd say going back at least 8 years this concept has bothered me. Is it still the IF mechanic to enforce it even if the umpires mistakenly do not announce it?

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

... The MLB manual states that the players are responsible for knowing when a situation is IFF. ...

...which is probably why that part was added to the rules...

johnny,

WTF are you talking about ?

What page of the "MLB manual" states that?

What "part" was added to what "rule"?

I agree with what Steve said that lapopez quoted. The players should know whether the conditions are in place for an IFF call - but, if it not obvious to everyone whether or not the ball could be caught with "ordinary effort" by an infielder, the umpire's judgement governs as to whether it is or is not an IFF.

And I call BS on your "cites".



JM

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Lapopez

[This was touched upon in the dropped third strike thread but I didn't want to drift too far off.]

In that thread SanDiegoSteve said:



I'd say going back at least 8 years this concept has bothered me. Is it still the IF mechanic to enforce it even if the umpires mistakenly do not announce it?

FED: The "infield fly" stands and the rest of the play is judged accordingly.

OBR: IF the defense gets zero or one outs on the play, the play stands. IF the defense gets two or three (yikes!) outs on the play, fix it.

[johnnyg08]

Maybe it's in the FED book...there's something in there about the players being responsible for knowing the situation. Don't bust me up so bad...I didn't make a direct citation...but I do have those books that I do cite in my possession. relax. I'll edit my post to make it easier on you.

[UmpJM]

johnny,

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Maybe it's in the FED book...there's something in there about the players being responsible for knowing the situation.

Cite, please.

Don't bust me up so bad...

That was nothing, I assure you.

I didn't make a direct citation...

No, you made two half-assed, incorrect, vague references - as if you knew what they said.

but I do have those books that I do cite in my possession.

That's great! Why don't you crack 'em open and find out what's inside?

relax. I'll edit my post to make it easier on you.

I'm very relaxed, thank you. Your post could not have been easier to respond to. Nice edit.

My point is, that when you post unadulterated BS here, as if you knew what you were talking about, it defeats the whole purpose of this board.

If you were a newbie, you'd get a little slack. But you're not. You've been posting here for years, and I know from experience that you can do better. If you don't like being called on it for posting BS, then don't post BS. Leave making stuff up to the coaches.

JM

[johnnyg08]

You're right, I could've done better. If I'm going to post things regarding rules, rule sets, etc...I should be more careful and be sure what I think I saw, is what I read. People come on here to get the right answer...not myth number 20546. Thanks for keeping me sharp. For the record...I have no idea where I read what I thought I read...I reconsulted J/R, MLBUM, OBR, Red book, FED rules, PBUC, and didn't see it in there. Maybe I should stop listening to the voices in my head. :-)

[umpjim]

The cites in FED that require: "Both teams have the responsibilty to know when conditions exist for an infield fly." are casebook 10.2.3 sit F. (erroneously called) and 10.2.3 sit G. (not called).
Flipping pages to find that stuff is hard but using the find function on the downloaded rules makes it much easier.

[johnnyg08]

Thank you. I knew it was in there somewhere. Yes, the searchable pdf's are the way to go.

[btdt]

could you provide a link for download of rules

[umpjim]

Login here: NFHS | National Federation of State High School Associations if you have a login or pay the $20 and create a login.

Navigation to the rulebooks can be confusing but you start with Publications Library and go to rules information and then you will see available subcategories and baseball will be there. I could not paste that link.


The rule book and casebook can be downloaded to your computer but you can't copy and paste anything from them.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by umpjim

The rule book and casebook can be downloaded to your computer but you can't copy and paste anything from them.

That is new this year. In the past you could copy and paste to your heart's content.

Oddly, some of the 2010 rule books for other sports still retain the full copy and paste functions. It makes me wonder if disabling the cut & paste functions for the baseball rule books was intentional or the accidental result of some random security setting when the books were posted.

[johnnyg08]

I am able to copy and paste from my version.

[BretMan]

Interesting. The above post wasn't the first one I've seen where someone said they could no longer copy from that PDF document.

I just went to the NFHS website and it wouldn't let me copy anything. Looking at the Adobe security settings, it's telling me the document cannot be copied, edited or printed.

Are you copying from this after dowloading it on your own computer or directly from the NFHS website?

[johnnyg08]

I am saving a copy to my files and it works from there. I have not tried it actually running it from the website.

[BretMan]

Okay- one more question!

Are you talking about the latest 2010 rule book on the NFHS site?

I just downloaded it to my hard drive, opened that saved file with Adobe, and it still says the file is copy protected.