Infiled Fly, If Fair

[FVB_Ryan]

Me (PU) and my partner (BU) had a situation yesterday that mad for a nice heap of confusion. A play happened, we let it progress and when it was finally over, reversed the call. Heres the sitch: MSBL 28+ -- R1, R2, Less than two outs. Batter hits very short (distance) and high pop up no more than ten feet from plate, on which pitcher seems to be about to make a very easy play on. I signal infield fly, and yell "infield fly, if its fair." Pitcher completely misses it (unintentionally) does not even make contact with the ball. I see the ball land fair, and immediately (this is my BIG mistake of the night) point fair, then signal out. Ball then bounces foul. Runners are going, and to be honest, I got so confused with what was going on, I dont know if R2 crossed the plate, or would have been out on the play, but when the play was over, R1 was R3, and R2 was nowhere to be seen (yeah, I should have been watching for him to cross the plate, but I didn't know what was going on....sidenote, taught me that I have to be alert for everything, even when weird stuff is going on). Anyway, I confer with my partner, and tell him that even though I did signal fair, the ball landed fair, and before it was touched, went foul. We decide and call it a foul ball, strike one, runners return. No one complained. With a full count, on the same batter, I had to call infield fly if fair again, but this time the third baseman caught it. After the game, as my partner and I walked to our cars, he mentioned that he isnt sure, but we may have called that play wrong, that he needs to look it up. I agreed, as that was what was going through my mind during the play. But I wasn't near confident enough to actually make the ruling. This leads me to my question: For the purposes of infield fly rule, Is there any difference in the determination of a fair or foul ball? Is the batter out immediately when the ball lands fair, even if it rolls foul? For some reason, my instincts tell me this is the case, though I cant seem to find that in the rules. (By the way, this was OBR, but if there is any difference in ruling, please cite both OBR and Fed Rules). Thanks in advance for the help.

[Gold_Spark]

You got the call right. A foul ball is a foul ball. And you said it yourself . . . "Infield Fly, If Fair".

The NFHS rule book reads it pretty easy, unless there is something I'm missing.

We'll find out in a couple of posts. But until we're proven wrong . . . good job blue.

[Tim C]

Ask yourself the following:

When does a ball become fair or foul?

You are thinking too much on this one.

The BALL was never a fair ball (i.e. it had not qualified under the rules that constitute a fair ball).

When you got back your senses (trust me I think we have all had some kind of a play do this to our "common sense") and called the ball foul and sent everyone back you did what was required.

The ball was foul. It can't be both foul and fair on the same play.

[GarthB]

What Tee said.

[brandda]

Sounds like a good, albeit painful, learning experience.

[Bfair]

Looking at how you described your play, you certainly got it correct even if you had to reverse your decision. Still, I'm trying to figure out this entire play.

Originally posted by FVB_Ryan


I dont know if R2 crossed the plate, or would have been out on the play, but when the play was over, R1 was R3, and R2 was nowhere to be seen (yeah, I should have been watching for him to cross the plate, but I didn't know what was going on....sidenote, taught me that I have to be alert for everything, even when weird stuff is going on).

If this was just a little popup to the pitcher, it seems to me the runners would pretty well be holding their bases--especially if you called an infield fly. Now, the ball drops and spins foul, and R2 makes it to home and R1 makes it to third................

I do a lot of adult baseball, but none as quick as your 28+ aged players who get 2 bases on this play!!!


Just my opinion,

Freix

[FVB_Ryan]

Bfair,
I definitely see what you are saying. I think the defense was about as confused as I was, and the offense took advantage of it. I remember my BU calling (though, this was reversed, of course) at least one runner out throughout the play. It was at first. I do not know if he was calling R1 out or if he was letting the BR know that I called him out.

[TxUmp]

I saw the following play (I was NOT umpiring this one!):

Infield fly situation. B3 hits towering popup slightly behind home plate into the face of a strong wind blowing straight out toward center. C overruns the attempt to catch the foul ball and it starts back toward the pitcher. C falls flat of his back without touching the ball and the ball hits in foul ground and rolls fair. PU calls nothing!!! Not "Infield fly, if fair", not "Foul ball", no fair ball signal, ... Nothing!!! P picks up the ball and goes back to the mound for the next pitch, with a strike on the batter.

This is an infield fly, and the batter should have been called out. The ball rolled into fair territory and was touched by a player - teh pitcher - in fair territory. No one questioned the (no) call, and the game progressed normally. I must have been the only one there who recognized that the umpire had blown the call and lost the opportunity to get an easy OUT call.

[FVB_Ryan]

If you saw the play, while not umping, and no one complained, I'm assuming that you (as a fellow umpire) know that there is a very good chance that the ump saw something you did not. The ball barely knicking the catcher's foot in foul before going fair again, something. I am definitely not saying this is the case, as I was obviously not there, but is that a possibility? Or were you sitting close enough and at a good enough angle that you saw the same things the umpire on the field saw??

[Jake80]

Originally posted by TxUmp
I saw the following play (I was NOT umpiring this one!):

Infield fly situation. B3 hits towering popup slightly behind home plate into the face of a strong wind blowing straight out toward center. C overruns the attempt to catch the foul ball and it starts back toward the pitcher. C falls flat of his back without touching the ball and the ball hits in foul ground and rolls fair. PU calls nothing!!! Not "Infield fly, if fair", not "Foul ball", no fair ball signal, ... Nothing!!! P picks up the ball and goes back to the mound for the next pitch, with a strike on the batter.

This is an infield fly, and the batter should have been called out. The ball rolled into fair territory and was touched by a player - teh pitcher - in fair territory. No one questioned the (no) call, and the game progressed normally. I must have been the only one there who recognized that the umpire had blown the call and lost the opportunity to get an easy OUT call.

I agree with you in the fact that this a fair ball if it was not touched by a player and rolled into fair territory. However, the infield fly rule is a judgement call. Could an infielder have caught it with ordinary effort? If the wind was extremely strong and the catcher was having a lot of diffuculty judging the ball the umpire may have judged that it could not have been caught with ordinary effort. I think it was one of those had to be there calls. Why NO call was made I have no idea.

[brandda]

Actually the fact that he called nothing suggests that he froze up. Happens sometimes.