artist's

[kbaerslt]

Had a batter draw a line with his foot on the outside part of the plate after i called a pitch a strike. i said to the catcher set up on the outside. The batter looked back and heard this. the next 2 pitches were 2 or 3 inches off the plate. The batter swung at both. When he cam up 2 innings later in the 7th the catcher did the same thing. The pitcher through 2 pitches inside for balls. The coach comes out to talk to the pitcher. I did not let the conference last long. I got to the mond asked if everything was alright. They said yes. I looked at the pitcher and said throw the ball on the outside half and i will call it. He got a big grean on his face. I went back to work the next 3 pitches were knee high outside half if not a little off and the batter swung at all three.

Just wonder did i handle this situation in the right manner. If not what are some other ideas?

[Striker991]

I'm still relatively new to this, but I find it curious that you are "coaching" players while you are umpiring....I also find it extremely inappropriate, if I understand your post correctly.

Others: Would I have a protest if I were the opposing coach and discovered this is going on?

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by kbaerslt

Had a batter draw a line with his foot on the outside part of the plate after i called a pitch a strike. i said to the catcher set up on the outside. The batter looked back and heard this. the next 2 pitches were 2 or 3 inches off the plate. The batter swung at both. When he cam up 2 innings later in the 7th the catcher did the same thing. The pitcher through 2 pitches inside for balls. The coach comes out to talk to the pitcher. I did not let the conference last long. I got to the mond asked if everything was alright. They said yes. I looked at the pitcher and said throw the ball on the outside half and i will call it. He got a big grean on his face. I went back to work the next 3 pitches were knee high outside half if not a little off and the batter swung at all three.

Just wonder did i handle this situation in the right manner. If not what are some other ideas?

What you are talking about comes under the category of Sending a Message. However, that message is sent 1 and only 1 time, not numerous and it is done only at the plate and early in the game not in the late innings with game on line.

When he comes up again, you should start from scratch. You already sent the message in the previous at bat. If he doesn't get the message by now then it's time to toss should he draw a line again. You can't continue to jeopardize the zone on this one batter. You sent the message. Either he gets it or doesn't.

So IMO you handled this situation incorrectly. I have no problem with what you did concerning the first at bat - but that's it as far as sending messages goes.

Pete Booth

[brandda]

We're umpires, not commentators and not coaches. Call it like you see it and let the players play.

[bluezebra]

"Had a batter draw a line with his foot on the outside part of the plate after i called a pitch a strike."

"Coach, send up another batter. This one has been ejected".

Bob

[Boone]

drawing a line is an instant ejection. No question. How else are you going to let the batter show you up?

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by Boone

drawing a line is an instant ejection. No question. How else are you going to let the batter show you up?

Baseball is unique in that there is NO REAL penalty other than ejection. In football an unsportsmanlike act is penalized with a 15 yard penalty. In basketball, a Technical Foul and in Hockey a misconduct penalty.

Therefore, on occassions, Umpires do send a message. Not all umpires abide by this but some do. However, the Message is sent only one time not numerous as in the above thread.

I can understand the first at bat, but after that if the player wants to continue to draw lines and didn't get the message then we send him packing. Also, we need to know the age of the players involved.

Sending a message is mostly reserved for higher level ball, meaning HS Varsity level and above. It is not recommended for anything lower than that as the players probably wouldn't understand it anyway.

This is one of those threads where it falls under the category to each his /her own Some umpires will send a message and some will simply eject - It's up to you, however, we don't send multiple messages as in the above thread.

Pete Booth

[Boone]

Peter, with all do respect, I wouldn't ever want to work with a partner who lets players continually draw lines on him.

The message you are sending isn't to the offending player. HE'S DONE. The message is to the managers and remaining players on both teams that you aren't someone to be messed with.

Trust me. If you dump a 14 year old for drawing a line, (after he's done crying) HE WILL NEVER DO THIS AGAIN. You've just done a favor to every umpire this little brat has for the next 4 years. No one learns what is unacceptable until YOU tell them.

By the way, I'm 37, look 27 but have 16 years in my association. Yeah I've had my fair share of dumps. How many this year? 3 in 122 games. Why? People don't f*ck with me anymore!

[ozzy6900]

Originally posted by kbaerslt
Had a batter draw a line with his foot on the outside part of the plate after i called a pitch a strike

If a batter draws a line, then he has effectivly argued the call. What's worse is that he just stepped over the point of no return in my game by showing me or my partner up. A batter or coach using their mouth to argue can be tolerated and the disagreement ended in a gentlemanly fashion. Draw a line on me or my partner and you just ended the conversation! I do not give one inch on this point.

Although I agree with Pete Booth that there is nothing in basball rules to back this up, I will not tolerate it. The batter is arguing balls and strikes. He can draw all the lines he wants in the nearest sandbox but he will not be doing it on my field.

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by Boone

Peter, with all do respect, I wouldn't ever want to work with a partner who lets players continually draw lines on him.

Apparently you are missing the point. After a player draws a line, I now ring him up on strikes in which he hasn't a prayer in hitting - that's called SENDING A MESSAGE meaning I do not tolerate such behavior, but to keep you in the game I'll send you ONE message. BTW this MESSAGE is sent to both teams as F2 knows what you are doing. If you don't get the message then you can have a nice day.

In addition I said, use only in select leagues meaning HS Varsity level and higher not a 14 yr. old teenager so IMO you need to re-read what I said.

Since you are not familiar with the concept of Sending a Message I'll give you a perfect example of how it works.

I was umpiring a mens game and F1 had a real good hook that day. I called strike one on B1 right on the outside corner. B1 was fooled but said and pointed with his bat, "I would need a tree trunk to hit that one"

F2 (remember this is a mens league), set out some 4-5 feet outside and F1 threw it there 2 more times for a called strike 3. At that level EVERYONE knew what I was doing and guess what Not a peep from anybody the rest of the way.

The next time this batter came up he said to me "Blue can we start over" and I said sure.

Perhaps you only umpire youth leagues which is why you answer the way you did. There are other ways an umpire can handle certain situations without using an ejection and not allowing a player to show them up - Just ask the PROS Joe West comes to mind.

Regardless of what you think there are other ways to get your point across without ejecting someone.

Pete Booth

[Umpire_Jeremy]

Pete,

I've agreed with you on most occasions, however, this is one that I do not. Drawing lines=instant ejections. And no, I do not eject very often at all, but I do have limits.

Good to hear from you again.

[Boone]

Peter, drawing a line is an ejection. That's my opinion and nearly every high level umpire I work with. I work Sandy Koufax to Men's League, including College. Your calling strikes that aren't strikes is sending a message...just not the one you intended.

Eject the player. Now you've sent a message. calling balls as strikes is bush.

And I'm saying eject the 14 year old as well. don't just save it for the high schoolers. Teach them a lesson while they are young enough to learn it.

[robert]

If it were me, if I were base ump or plate ump, I'd toss the guy, that is just unacceptable and not for the game. If you let this one guy show you up, you loose respect form other coaches, which means they will argue with you more. When I was playing I watched a pitch in my eyes, my coach asked me where the pitch was, and, regretfully, I jumped up and pointed, and said "right there". My coach and I were instantly ejected. My father, who has always taught to respect the officals, did everything short of castrating me. I hated the call, but now that I am on the other side, I say "Good call, Blue." As far as the message, if you weren't gonna eject I'd forget the outside trash, and call a strike on him for the rest of the game if it was anywhere near the strike zone. I hate arguing players.

[Boone]

Robert, very wise for such a youngster!

We have folk in our association who never eject for fear of "losing control" of the game. Little do they know that ejections allow you to "gain" control of the game.

but on the other side of the coin, there are players who "get it". A good catcher, for example, when a coach asks where that pitch was, and you know it was fricking down the middle but for some reason you balled it anyway, the catcher says "that was outside coach". That kid gets it. You think I'm gonna ring him up later on a borderline pitch? Not while I'm drawing breath.

[blarson]

I've done it on a batter who dropped the bat in "disbelieve" after called strike.

F2 lined up outside, twice, and see ya !

Told batter to consider swinging the bat next time. F1 laughed him off the field, F2 laughed him off the field. His own bench laughed him off the field. Told him he got what was coming to him.

He apologized next at bat. No further problems.

Bob