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Phil Cuzzi's Vision
is listed on Ebay right now.
It's being described as "new in box-never used". :eek: |
And the Twins were the victims--really stinks. I've never seen a major league ump miss such a fair/foul call. The only excuse I can think is that he misjudged that the ball was touched by F7 over foul ground? Still not good.
Of course, failing to score with bases loaded and no outs stinks worse. P-Sz |
Two of the worst blown calls I have ever seen were made by C.B. Bucknor at first in last night's Angels-Sox game. And there was a huge kick at third in Philadelphia.
But that fair/foul was beyond belief. You have one thing to do all effing night and then that's it?!? Wow. The best of the best. |
So why didn't everyone here go to the umpires school so we could have competent umpires in MLB.
Horsesh!t baseball to get caught at second and tagged before the run scored at the plate earlier in the game, to end the inning and possibly score more runs. Horsesh!t baseball when you cannot score in that same inning of the call with the bases loaded and 0 outs. Horsesh!t baseball when the manager in the postgame interview has to ask the press, there were 6 umpires right, because he didn't really know. Who stranded runners all night? Who gave up a game tying home run in the bottom of the 9th-How about the walk-off in the 11th? |
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Tim. |
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So, why didn't everyone on this forum go to the umpire school and become MLBU? I am sure this would not have happened if the people on this board were MLBU. |
One of several with Cuzzi and the Yankees.
That call was not why the Twins lost the game. Leaving 17 runners on base is a good start.
But, I have to say these are things that make you go hmmmm... Rd. 2: Guillen upset with umpire Cuzzi | whitesox.com: News Home rules for New York Yankees; Indians lose, 6-5 | Cleveland Indians - cleveland.com - - cleveland.com Ozzie Guillen Is Not A Fan of Phil Cuzzi -- MLB FanHouse Sports: Healing Thome gets extra swings |
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Too many, too close
I won't participate in pro umpire criticism. I saw it, watched replays, and watched the interview of the crew chief.
Obvious Dept: The best professional umpires make mistakes, sometimes. But what I think is interesting to discuss is the 6 umpire system, under the category of WHY? Doesn't it seem that more often than not over the years you have the line umpire getting near a play and missing it? Seems to me that fair and foul is pretty well covered with 4 umpires. And last night maybe by being THAT close it contributes to the miss. Of course the 2 extra umpires are getting big playoff money, so from umpires perspective it won't change. But... really... does it help? How often have you seen a call that you say could only have been made (correctly) with 6 umpires. |
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Blind defense of all umpires regardless of anything and everything is not the sign of loyalty that you think it is. And to come at every critic with that convoluted if-not-for-this-play-or-that-error-or-this-bad-decision-then-the-call-wouldn't-have-mattered approach is an insult to everyone who knows the game. Another insult is that if-you-can-do-better-then-why-aren't-you-out-there nonsense. This is America; we're allowed to find fault with the big people in this society and the way they run things and then voice it. Say all you want about everything that happened before the call; it is indefensible. Period. He's in the major leagues for crying out loud! If you want to be a blindly loyal, blissfully accepting follower, that is your right. But you don't have to be so defensive and insulting of people who choose to have their eyes and minds open to what the realities are. |
I won't defend the call, but Minnesota had every opportunity to win that game. It's sad that the one horrendous fair/foul call will overshadow the fact that Minnesota should have easily won that game.
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We can't defend the call, he simply blew it.
We also don't know what was in his head, or what he saw from his angle. Replay can't view the play from the precise place that the official sees the play, which is why I'm against replay in baseball. |
Another thing that makes that thing so egregious is that it almost couldn't have been an easier call to blow. Zero factors, just watching the ball hit the glove and the ground. Preposterous.
The game is what it is. A call late in a close game can decide it. If you blow it, you can hand a game to a team. Nothing else at that point is really relevant. It just lessens the sting to bring it up. |
I agree Kevin. When I saw the replay the first thing that came into my mind was, "Damn, Cuzzi is in perfect position to make this call, how can he blow it?" He was set, didn't seem to be screened or straightlined. How is it that we see a pitch come right down the pipe, yet we say... "ball"..... ?
The human mind is a mysterious thing. |
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So why is your first instinct to insult us for seeing and stating the obvious? Perspective is not a bad thing. Why do you want to close yourself off? |
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I literally said the wrong word and waved my arms and everything. I don't even know why or how. It just came out. The coach didn't even come out on me. It hasn't happened since. But I bet it will someday. It was easier for me than for Phil, because I'm lowly paid. |
Lucky for us we only do 'low quality' ball.
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Not to defend the guy, but . . .
Putting myself into Cuzzi's shoes, I could see three things that might have caused me to make the same call.
First, he might have been thinking as the ball came down 'fair, fair, if the ball touches the glove, it's fair. Nope, ball seems to have missed glove, foul!' Second, at the speed at which events were occurring, he might have simply mis-seen where the ball hit the ground, especially as the ball seemed to veer foul sharply after impact. Third, he seemed to rush the call. Had he replayed the action in his mind for another half-second, he might have realized that it was fair and made the right call. That being said, he blew the call, it was a bigtime call, so he blew it bigtime. May we all learn from his mistake. Thanks to JR12 for posting the link. |
Defend the call
Yes, he kicked the call. The ball landed within a foot of the foul line. The ump was in position and made the wrong call. Did it matter that he had a split second to find the ball in his field of vision, the fielder touched the ball and that the ball took a sharp rebound? No, none of that matters.
Another call for instant replay - MLB - Yahoo! Sports What does matter is that there is a major distinction between a bad call on a banger like this {ball/strike, fair/foul and safe/out} and taking a "mightier than thou" attitude displayed on this thread. Perhaps he was thinking the fielder was going to make the catch and was surprised when he dropped it. It was a serious Matt Holliday moment. His timing was off a bit and in the rush from safe/out he erred on fair/foul. But my point is, let it go already. I'm not referring to any discussion about the call, just those "I-walk-on-water" comments coming out of the fanbox. I'll defend the little SOB. http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slu...yhoo&type=lgns |
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Look at the post game interview video at :57. You can see how fast the play actually happened. He got it wrong but you saying that it "couldn't have been an easier call" isn't right. |
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Why do Post Offices have a union employee work the lobby to show people how to use the self explanatory Self Service machine? They have extra guys because the union asked for it is my guess-I could be wrong but, that is my guess. I cannot remember any calls in the postseason that were nailed because of extra umps. I can remember a lot of the kicked by them extra guys, though. Can anybody ever remember a fair/foul call like this in the regular season? |
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I'll take that as an affirmation. |
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Umpire replied "40, 000 people just saw me bang you out" The runner ran off the field without another word! :) |
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It looked quite obvious in real time that the ball was touched by F7 in fair territory, dropped towards the foul line and still landed 4 inches approximately in fair territory. He was 20 feet away with a perfect look. That being said, I blew a pickoff at first today. Had the runner as out. Offensive team squawked a little. I asked my partner later and he said it looked like I got it wrong. Oh well, we all blow calls now and then. |
I read something about the 6-umpire system where the MLB guys were saying that it's very tough if you're the LF or RF umpire because the ball is coming down almost on top of you all the time. They said fair/foul calls right on the pole are incredibly hard because you have no angle and you're following the ball straight down. To me, it looked like the ball got right on top of Cuzzi really quickly. I think if he were further away, his timing might have been better.
I see no reason to use six umpires in the post season. |
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At every level, the trick is to keep your head in the game, keep focused. I feel fortunate that millions of people aren't watching me when I have a brain fart. |
Bottom line. It was a gross and inexcusable miss. Same is true for the guy that missed a similar call in the CWS.
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What was he thinking when he made that call? He wasn't, the brain hadn't joined the rest of the body at that point. Plain and simple, if it has never happened to you, your lying. |
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Pro players strike out, throw wild pitches, do stupid baserunning tricks, throw to wrong bases, toss the ball into the stands after the second out, drop fly balls, miss signs, have a ground ball go through the wickets, bat out of order, and many other "dumb" things. To the purist, these are inexcusable. To the realist - stuff happens. It's over. Move on. |
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Another lesson: When in doubt, call it fair. You've got to be really sure that it's foul to call it. Give the benefit of the doubt to the hitter, not to the guy who didn't catch it. Class dismissed. |
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"But that fair/foul was beyond belief. You have one thing to do all effing night and then that's it?!? Wow. The best of the best." "We're criticizing the dreadful call by a very highly paid professional, who performs his work in public." Okay, so now we know the cause.:rolleyes: |
Minnesota Joe
The ball bounced into DBT while the foul call was being made. It appears that the Twins never asked if a foul call like this can be overturned. Did Joe or his manager request a second opinion before the next pitch?
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When I saw the play I thought he did wait it out and used his timing.
The bottom line is, the ball comes down so quick and then bounces up and kicks left. That change of direction, the eyes can't detect the point at which the ball hit the ground. A guy 100 feet away has a MUCH better look because the eyes do not need to change direction so quickly, you can just take in that big picture without having to shift the eyes so quickly. Now that there is IR in MLB for home run calls, I see no need for 6 umpires in the post season. The only thing they are good for is those boundary calls, and since that's now reviewable, I say there should be a shift to a 5 man crew (one guy gets a day) for a 5 game series, and 2 separate 4 man crews for a 7 game series. Probably won't happen though... |
He hustled out, got in a great set position, paused and made the call. The trouble was, again in my opinion, that he was too close to the play take in the whole scene. I think his timing was okay.
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Whoever said an umpire calling this from 100 feet away would have seen it better is exactly right. |
6 Man Crew
The reason that a 6 man crew is used in the P/O's is to improve outfield coverage on catch no catch calls, and for improved F/F coverage. The only thing I can come up with regarding Cuzzi's call is he either didn't pick up the ball until after it hit fair, or he called it too soon.
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Just plain missed it, it happens...
So what is the common process in determining Fair/Foul, do you look at the ground and wait for the ball to hit, or do you try and track the ball into the ground and make the determination then? |
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Which is why Evans has recommended putting umpires around the warning track between LF & CF and RF & CF - IMO, especially with replay now, having 2 umpires on the lines is just pointless. I mean at times they are literally 20-30 feet behind the 1B & 3B umpire. |
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This was a gross miss. Doesn't mean he sucks as an umpire. However it makes it easier for me to get over a "gross miss" (Haven't had one for awhile) knowing that it can happen to the best of the best.
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I do not see how he missed this call. This was about as bad of a miss as I have ever seen and he was in much better position than most umpires at most levels ever get to make that call. And many people are right about this does not make him a bad umpire, but how you miss something like this really is beyond belief.
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Good point JR
Again, with the experience these guys have, to miss that one is perplexing. However, there seems to be many calls that are not one sounders or bangers in the P/O's that have been kicked this year. We all miss them at times, but this is where the top guys are to be showing why they are there
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This post is a bit of a rant, so ignore it if you like.
There are issues with this that MLB and the umpire's union needs to address (IMO). First, with a call this obviously poor (not just missed... poor - the ball was fair for two easily seen reasons: it hit the players glove in fair territory, and it hit the ground in fair territory) in a playoff game, there needs to be some repercussions for the umpire. A call this bad is poor in general, and in a playoff game, unacceptable. Second, with the obvious conflict of interest for MLB (they clearly make more money if the Yankees advance than if the Twins advance), there needs to be transparency in how the umpire is disciplined. With a call this poor, there will be (and is) the chatter that it was favoritism. Third, there needs to be transparency in how umpires are selected for the playoffs, for the same reason as #2, and it needs to be merit-based. Cuzzi has somewhat of a history of poor calls that favor the Yankees. Why was he assigned to this series? MLB cannot afford to appear to be tolerating incompetent umpires in the playoffs neither can they afford the appearance of impropriety in the officiating. The pretend commissioner is no help. In responding to the call for instant replay for calls of this kind that resulted from the poor call, he mumbled something about baseball cannot tolerate the delay. With the generally slow pace of MLB, this is obviously baloney. Further, his credibility as a man of integrity is, well, laughable. There are real and good reasons why IR for this kind of call is a bad idea (e.g. play stops with the FOUL call; you can't recreate the continuing action that would have happened, etc.), but for a man of seedy reputation to make such an obviously silly reason for no IR just adds fuel to the speculation that something is amiss. |
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Give me a damn break. Peace |
There is a difference between "knowing" and "appearance". With Cuzzi's history, there is the appearance of bias. With the pretend commissioner's history, there is the fact of lack of integrity. With the selection process, there is little or no transparency. With the umpire rating/discipline process, there is no transparency. This is not a good combination.
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Peace |
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Other than that - excellent post. |
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Only that Cuzzi's call was SO wrong , SO clearly wrong, and the system is so impervious that it leads to loss of integrity in the mind of the fans. |
Any fan out there who thinks an umpire blows a call intentionally or cares who wins or loses a game is an idiot. If that's their "perception," they have serious bias problems of their own.
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But first, let's find out if there is any possibility that the dreadful six man mechanics or positioning had anything to do with this. It was terrible call, no question, but let's find out the reason for it...not the excuse...the reason. Quote:
Chatter? From whom? Fanboys? Idiot announcers? The "Couch Slouch?" Anyone who believes that MLB would intentionally try to get a specific team in World Series needs a reality check, or a history lesson. Quote:
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Lets not forget, without the idiot fans, there is no sport. It doesn't matter whether the idiot fans are idiots; it doesn't matter whether their preceptions are rational; it doesn't matter what the facts are if no one except insiders knows the facts; it only matters whether they are willing to spend money to buy tickets.
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Peace |
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The Devil you know, beats the Devil you don't. And I like the Devil I got. |
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I do not favor IR in MLB, not even the limited IR they have now. I do not suggest anything should have been done to fix the call Cuzzi made. He made it; live with it. But, if his umpire ratings during the season do not place him in the top 20% of umpires in MLB, he had no business being on that crew to begin with. Other points made in this thread I also agree with. For example, using a 6 umpire system only for the playoffs... you have an umpire who is working a position for the first, and probably only, time during the season? How is that a good idea? I have no idea how MLB manages its crews, but if the 6 umpire system has advantages of coverage, they need to do something to fix the "first time in a year" problem in working the position. How about form the playoff crews with 2 weeks remaining in the season and have them work the system for 2 weeks. Fill in the other games with the now idle (I assume) minor league umpires. But to have umpires working a position for the first time in a year in the biggest games of the year makes no sense whatsoever. |
Dakota,
I agree with most of what you say, but what does that have to do with someone being bias on a single call in a playoff game? Peace |
"Appearance of bias..." from the conflict of interest, not actual bias. Look at the fan rantings all over the internet on this call... most are NOT from Twins fans.
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None of that matters, however, to those who hear black helicopters and wear tinfoil hats. For them, the lack of evidence and implausibility only prove their theories true. |
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Maybe....
Just as in any level of ball, you have guys that are solid mechanically, in Game Mgt, and judgement wise. Then you have those who are constantly in trouble. That will not or can not accept criticism or take instruction. Those whose reputation is poor, whether justified or not. But this is for sure, once the players, Mgrs, press, etc. see you as HS, that does not go away. They will not believe you right or wrong. Any close call or decision brings the heat. I suspect this is the case here.
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Peace |
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Meaning He is in over his head, and obviously he is in trouble constantly
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Phil Cuzzi
After missing that call Cuzzi should be fined and taken off the crew and not be allowed to umpire anymore this year. That was not even a hard call to make for gosh sakes total incompetence.
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Blame the Twins
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But apparently the reason, if there is one, doen't matter. Let's put his head on a pike outsided the entrance to the Twins Stadium as a warning to all other umpires. http://www.traveljournals.net/pictur...ed-kingdom.jpg |
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Actually, the Twins fan boards, while generally angry about the call, were more angry with Gomez' LL bench player base running, Nathan's blown save, and leaving 17 baserunners stranded.
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I think the call would be a lot easier to accept if it hadn't been a fly ball fair/foul call---the easiest call in all of umpiring.
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Stop making excuses. He blew an easy call. Quit defending MLB umpires at all costs. Everyone blows a call now and then.
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No argument about the call. Did you see an argument? Perhaps you have me confused with someone else. I have never disputed that this call was blown. In my post, I was questioning the "easiest call in all of umpiring" claim. If you have a problem with that, feel free to discuss. But there is no sense in arguing something that isn't being debated. Chill. |
It was a pretty damn easy call, and he wasn't "out of position." He had the best position and angle in the entire building and still managed to miss it. But it's all good, because we all miss calls. I don't need to chill, I'm just tired of excuses about the gross miss. When I badly kick a call, I say, "Damn, I sure blew that one," beat myself up for a while, then move on.
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But, I can think of several calls easier to make that a fair/foul call near the line. Again, that was what my post was about. So if my comment of "chill" was inappropriate, let's change it to: don't assume. |
Name a few easier calls, then.
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The eyes do fail us when we have to move them sharply one way, then another. They will, at times, give bad information to the brain. This is why we line up our tagup plays, come to a set on force plays, and improve angle before distance. And on the play in the OP, Cuzzi had to move his eyes awfully quick to track where that ball hit. It's not an excuse, its an explanation on to why he called what he did. It happens. Blame the receptors in the optic nerve and the occipital lobe. |
Where to start...
Here's three to begin with:
1. Full swinging strike 2. Can of corn to F4 3. Wild pitch that goes to the backstop |
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#3 is not a call, try again. LOL
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