Please help a couple of coaches

[Rufus]

We're playing in a youth league that uses NFHS rules (I've ordered my rulebook but it's not yet arrived). We're at our first practice today and I'm going over with the baserunners what a pitcher can and cannot do, more specifically what they should be looking for. Here are my questions:

• Are there any differences in balk rules for NFHS vs. OBR vs. NCAA (In reading prior posts it doesn't appear there are but would appreciate confirmation of that). Specifically then:
• R1, no outs, RHP engaged with the plate and in the set position. For purposes of argument he steps directly to 1st (don't want to get into how high he lifts his leg, whether it goes behind the plate, or discussions about 45 degrees - just steps directly to 1st) without disengaging from the plate and throws the ball to 1st (i.e., doesn't feint). Is that a balk? I don't think it is. My fellow coach said it is because he didn't disengage with his pivot foot backwards off the plate first.

I know this topic has been covered a lot and I appreciate your responses and NFHS rules reference (especially if I'm correct but even more so if I'm not and need to learn the rules better).

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by Rufus

R1, no outs, RHP engaged with the plate and in the set position. For purposes of argument he steps directly to 1st (don't want to get into how high he lifts his leg, whether it goes behind the plate, or discussions about 45 degrees - just steps directly to 1st) without disengaging from the plate and throws the ball to 1st (i.e., doesn't feint). Is that a balk? I don't think it is. My fellow coach said it is because he didn't disengage with his pivot foot backwards off the plate first.

In OBR this is legal. In fact, if he steps toward 1B without disengaging he must throw to 1B.

I don't think there is a difference for NFHS (I hope).

[johnnyg08]

No difference for FED...but...his move must be directly to 1B for a RHP...a move to 1B that's legal for a LHP, is not legal for a RHP. (In reference to your foot placement/leg raising question)

For the most part, the Jim Evans balk video covers most of what you'll need for FED rules. In FED, a pitcher can't be in the windup and throw to an unoccupied base for the purposes of making a play...in OBR they can.

[Kevin Finnerty]

This is cool. He'll be so confused when we're done with him.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by Rufus

don't want to get into how high he lifts his leg, whether it goes behind the plate, or discussions about 45 degrees - just steps directly to 1st

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

This is cool. He'll be so confused when we're done with him.

As soon as I read that, I thought, "Yeah, he'll get an answer and then some." We could get this to 3 or 4 pages if we tried.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by SethPDX

As soon as I read that, I thought, "Yeah, he'll get an answer and then some." We could get this to 3 or 4 pages if we tried.

Or, we could use Ives' technique and tell them to buy the video and be done with it.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Or, we could use Ives' technique and tell them to buy the video and be done with it.

Yes, I saw your smiley.

Buying and watching the video would probably teach them better that having them try to figure it out from reading the posts by a myriad of folks with varying writing skills and rule understandings.

But then because they're in a youth league the newbe umpires they'll get could probably use a copy too.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Or, we could use Ives' technique and tell them to buy the video and be done with it.

Considering the seemingly conflicting and certainly confusing information he'll get in this thread, that might well be the best approach.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Rufus

We're playing in a youth league that uses NFHS rules (I've ordered my rulebook but it's not yet arrived). We're at our first practice today and I'm going over with the baserunners what a pitcher can and cannot do, more specifically what they should be looking for. Here are my questions:

• Are there any differences in balk rules for NFHS vs. OBR vs. NCAA (In reading prior posts it doesn't appear there are but would appreciate confirmation of that). Specifically then:
• R1, no outs, RHP engaged with the plate and in the set position. For purposes of argument he steps directly to 1st (don't want to get into how high he lifts his leg, whether it goes behind the plate, or discussions about 45 degrees - just steps directly to 1st) without disengaging from the plate and throws the ball to 1st (i.e., doesn't feint). Is that a balk? I don't think it is. My fellow coach said it is because he didn't disengage with his pivot foot backwards off the plate first.

I know this topic has been covered a lot and I appreciate your responses and NFHS rules reference (especially if I'm correct but even more so if I'm not and need to learn the rules better).

One of the differences between OBR & FED is if F1 is in the wind up position:

• in OBR he may deliver a pitch, pick off a runner or step off.
• In FED he may only deliver a pitch or step off. He may not pick off a runner from the wind up position.

As far as your situation goes, it is legal in FED the way you described it. F1 does not have to step off but he must complete the throw if he is going to 1st base.

One very important thing in FED ball (real FED ball) is that the pitching restrictions on F1 begin as soon as F1 makes contact with the rubber. For example, in FED, if F1 goes to his mouth with his pitching hand, he must wipe his hand before he touches the ball. If F1 is in contact with the rubber and goes to his mouth, that is a balk with runners on.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rufus

My fellow coach said it is because he didn't disengage with his pivot foot backwards off the plate first.

This particular rule is the same in all codes. Your fellow coach has been drinking the myth kool-aid.

Two differences that hve not been mentioned:

• A balk is an immediate dead ball in FED, even if the balk is immediately followed by a throw or pitch. Kill it and advance the runners.
  
• The "gorilla stance" is a balk in FED. How strictly it's enforced will vary by area.

[Rufus]

Thank you all for the responses and (fortunately or unfortunately as I've been coming to this forum for a while now) I didn't find the responses too confusing (I know, give it a couple of minutes!).

I will look into Jim Evans video as well.

[Ump Rube]

Not that it relates directly to your question, but one other major difference in the balk codes is that in OBR the ball stays alive, in FED the ball is dead immediately. A good piece of information to remember if you, or the umpire you are dealing with, operates under multiple codes.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Rufus

We're playing in a youth league that uses NFHS rules (I've ordered my rulebook but it's not yet arrived). We're at our first practice today and I'm going over with the baserunners what a pitcher can and cannot do, more specifically what they should be looking for. Here are my questions:

• Are there any differences in balk rules for NFHS vs. OBR vs. NCAA (In reading prior posts it doesn't appear there are but would appreciate confirmation of that). Specifically then:
• R1, no outs, RHP engaged with the plate and in the set position. For purposes of argument he steps directly to 1st (don't want to get into how high he lifts his leg, whether it goes behind the plate, or discussions about 45 degrees - just steps directly to 1st) without disengaging from the plate and throws the ball to 1st (i.e., doesn't feint). Is that a balk? I don't think it is. My fellow coach said it is because he didn't disengage with his pivot foot backwards off the plate first.

I know this topic has been covered a lot and I appreciate your responses and NFHS rules reference (especially if I'm correct but even more so if I'm not and need to learn the rules better).

Not a balk any level.

Interesting first practice. I used to spend my first practice time finding out who could run fast, throw hard, and hit hard. Spending time on pitcher's pickoff moves was like, last practice before first game, if at all.

Spending time on what "GO" and "BACK" meant was last 10 minutes of every practice but was generally conducted at 3B not 1B.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The "gorilla stance" is a balk in FED. How strictly it's enforced will vary by area.

This area: Not getting called. Everyone would just say, "But Heath Bell does it!" I'm not going to try and explain to the coach the reasoning behind the FED rules, I'm just going to not enforce it like everyone else.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Last season:

Coach: "Hey, Kevin, can he swing his arm like that?"

Me: "Yes."

Coach: "Isn't that against the rules now?"

Me: "Yes."

Coach: "I love it."