The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #31 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 03, 2009, 11:09pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NY state
Posts: 1,504
From my first contact with Jason until delivery, I received prompt, professional and courteous service and a product appropriately and fairly priced. I don't purchase exorbitantly priced items. I purchase items of value.
  #32 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 03, 2009, 11:11pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,895
It always cracks me up whenever anyone prices something at a rate that will simply squelch sales of the product. If this book wasn't priced so exorbitantly, thousands more umpires would buy it. Thousands. Even used or thrashed copies like the one they sent me.

It took me until this week to unload that much, even though I was introduced to it sometime late last year. And I'm pretty loose with the change when it comes to umpiring. It's a truly outstanding publication; it's too bad most umpires will never buy it just because of the price.

I had a business school professor that called the practice that they're employing "strategic sales control."

Last edited by Kevin Finnerty; Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 11:28pm.
  #33 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 03, 2009, 11:23pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrUmpire View Post
From my first contact with Jason until delivery, I received prompt, professional and courteous service and a product appropriately and fairly priced. I don't purchase exorbitantly priced items. I purchase items of value.
You're biased.

Virtually no $70.00 paperback is "fairly priced." The information is uniquely valuable, but so is the information in a great many reasonably priced paperbacks.

And I did not deal with Jason or anyone; maybe that's why you get favorable treatment and online store customers get the scrap. I purchased it online and paid through PayPal to make it quick, safe and easy. The lack of professionalism was in the shoddy packing and shipping of the product, and possibly the sending of a used book to a customer paying full price for an exorbitantly priced new book. Either way, it was thrashed when I first touched it.

Fairly priced. What would a new hardcover version cost: $150.00?
  #34 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 04, 2009, 08:34pm
Stop staring at me swan.
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,974
Kevin, if you're so unhappy, make a phone call and ask for a new one.
__________________
It's like Deja Vu all over again
  #35 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 04, 2009, 08:47pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,219
Send a message via AIM to TussAgee11
I consider this an umpiring text book. The same sort of book you'd get if you went to attend these classes.

Its no different than if you were interested in religion and wanted to get a religion 101 textbook in leiu or to supplement a class. And those text books, yes, in their paperback format, run you about the same as this Evans book.

Jim just isn't selling a book here, he's selling his umpire knowledge and training system. No different than if you wanted to buy a scholar's knowledge on any other subject in acadamia...!
  #36 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 04, 2009, 09:00pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Chasing the dream
Posts: 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty View Post
It always cracks me up whenever anyone prices something at a rate that will simply squelch sales of the product. If this book wasn't priced so exorbitantly, thousands more umpires would buy it. Thousands. Even used or thrashed copies like the one they sent me.

It took me until this week to unload that much, even though I was introduced to it sometime late last year. And I'm pretty loose with the change when it comes to umpiring. It's a truly outstanding publication; it's too bad most umpires will never buy it just because of the price.

I had a business school professor that called the practice that they're employing "strategic sales control."
Neither you, nor your professor know the details to make such a judgement. Unless, of course you subscribe to a theory that all books of similar size and material should cost the same.

I had the pleasure of speaking with Jim prior the publication of his new manual. Pricing wasn't done willy-nilly. A survey was conducted of umpires, testing different price points. Additionally, the costs of different quantities of the first run were considered. Not to mention the cost, time and material that went into the writing and compilation.

As most marketing execs understand, lower pricing does not always result in a sufficient increase in sales to counter the reduction.

Also, Jim understands his market enough to realize the those umpires willing to pursue education and invest in materials to improve their craft, despite the internet, remains a small portion of the total number of umpires.

While you seem to portray yourself as an expert on everything that gets discussed, there are others who know what they are doing.

If you are unhappy, you have two choices. Fix the problem or continue whining.

Last edited by Ump153; Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 09:10pm.
  #37 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 04, 2009, 09:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08 View Post
Kevin, if you're so unhappy, make a phone call and ask for a new one.
Naw ... it's something that gets well-used after awhile, it's just that it's an insult to pay that much for something that is damaged.

It's a really detailed, well organized manual. Wow! Great stuff. Don't want to put it down long enough to send it back.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TussAgee11 View Post
I consider this an umpiring text book. The same sort of book you'd get if you went to attend these classes.

Its no different than if you were interested in religion and wanted to get a religion 101 textbook in leiu or to supplement a class. And those text books, yes, in their paperback format, run you about the same as this Evans book.

Jim just isn't selling a book here, he's selling his umpire knowledge and training system. No different than if you wanted to buy a scholar's knowledge on any other subject in acadamia...!
My second kid is now in year two of college and my daughter just graduated. They both attended high schools where I had to buy all their text books. I started buying overpriced paperback text books in 2001, and I'll be buying them for three more years at least.

And it's the first thing I thought of when I saw this late last year when it first came out ... just like you described! Another $70.00 college text book!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ump153 View Post
Neither you, nor your professor know the details to make such a judgement. Unless, of course you subscribe to a theory that all books of similar size and material should cost the same.

I had the pleasure of speaking with Jim prior the publication of his new manual. Pricing wasn't done willy-nilly. A survey was conducted of umpires, testing different price points. Additionally, the costs of different quantities of the first run were considered. Not to mention the cost, time and material that went into the writing and compilation.

As most marketing execs understand, lower pricing does not always result in a sufficient increase in sales to counter the reduction.

Also, Jim understands his market enough to realize the those umpires willing to pursue education and invest in materials to improve their craft, despite the internet, remains a small portion of the total number of umpires.

While you seem to portray yourself as an expert on everything that gets discussed, there are others who know what they are doing.

If you are unhappy, you have two choices. Fix the problem or continue whining.
I'm not whining; I'm not speaking for myself (I gladly made the expense); and I'm not an expert. I'm speaking for the segment of the umpiring fraternity that would buy it if it were reasonably priced.

And Jim and his analysts would all make considerably more money, and more umpires across the land would benefit from this marvelous manual and its thorough and well-organized lessons. That's my educated guess, not an expert opinion.

Last edited by Kevin Finnerty; Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 10:31pm.
  #38 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 05, 2009, 01:12am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,219
Send a message via AIM to TussAgee11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty View Post

And Jim and his analysts would all make considerably more money, and more umpires across the land would benefit from this marvelous manual and its thorough and well-organized lessons. That's my educated guess, not an expert opinion.
But perhaps, just perhaps, Jim felt that he didn't want this info in to many hands because it would replace, in the minds of the consumer, the value of going to either 5 week camp or weekend camps in the summer...

Maybe he wasn't trying to replace the Red Book. Maybe he was just trying to make a pitch to serious umpires about his camp. Who knows. Its his buisness decision, and your consumer decision to buy it or not.

He doesn't tell you whether or not you should buy it at that price, perhaps you shouldn't tell him what price he should sell HIS possessions at.
  #39 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 05, 2009, 01:29am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Chasing the dream
Posts: 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty;618911. That's my educated [B
guess[/B], not an expert opinion.
Something we can agree upon.
  #40 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 05, 2009, 08:54am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,895
But it's a well-educated guess, unlike yours: "As most marketing execs understand, lower pricing does not always result in a sufficient increase in sales to counter the reduction."

Oh, they do?? Well, look around you!

Now, in this case, one of us is wrong about whether Evans's book would enjoy greater sales and greater impact if it were priced reasonably. Why don't you take a guess who that is.
  #41 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 05, 2009, 09:35am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty View Post
Now, in this case, one of us is wrong about whether Evans's book would enjoy greater sales and greater impact if it were priced reasonably. Why don't you take a guess who that is.
You guys are arguing different things. You are arguing "sales and impact," he is arguing "profit."

No one (I don't think) disputes that sales increase as the price decreases.

There's also the matter of the value words "priced reasonably." Some might think that $120 is "reasonable" for the product. Other's might think that $120 is high, but $80 is reasonable. You think that $80 is high, but $40 (or some such number) is reasonable. I think it would be reasonable for him to pay me $80 to read it.

It's not really any different from the discussion about the titanium masks. For you "spending a game check" to get the mask was worth it -- the price (or in this instance the price difference) was reasonable. For others it wasn't -- but you seemed to have a hard time understanding that (or at least that's how I interpreted / remember your posts). Now you seem to have a hard time understanding (again, my reading of your posts) how someone can view this purchase at this price as reasonable.

To be clear, I understand how / why you came to those conclusions for you and for your values. But, I also understand how others might come to a different conclusion on one or both items, for their values (and for where they are in their umpire career).
  #42 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 05, 2009, 09:56am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Chasing the dream
Posts: 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty View Post
But it's a well-educated guess, unlike yours: "As most marketing execs understand, lower pricing does not always result in a sufficient increase in sales to counter the reduction."

Oh, they do?? Well, look around you!

Now, in this case, one of us is wrong about whether Evans's book would enjoy greater sales and greater impact if it were priced reasonably. Why don't you take a guess who that is.
Oh, I know who that is.

The key word to those of us who ARE marketing executives is "always."

Often, a 50% reduction in price does not result in the doubling of sales, which would be required for revenue to stay the same. If this is to hard for you to understand, I have some reasonably priced basic marketing texts I could give you.

Again, unlike your opinion, these matters were studied and decisions were made based on facts.
  #43 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 05, 2009, 11:41am
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Lakeside, California
Posts: 6,724
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
It's not really any different from the discussion about the titanium masks. For you "spending a game check" to get the mask was worth it
Bob, where can I sign up for these games where one game check will pay for my titanium mask? I'll do 3 a day 7 days a week.
__________________
Matthew 15:14, 1 Corinthians 1:23-25
  #44 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 05, 2009, 08:28pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ump153 View Post
Oh, I know who that is.

The key word to those of us who ARE marketing executives is "always."

Often, a 50% reduction in price does not result in the doubling of sales, which would be required for revenue to stay the same. If this is to hard for you to understand, I have some reasonably priced basic marketing texts I could give you.

Again, unlike your opinion, these matters were studied and decisions were made based on facts.
That's great. They guessed that pricing it at $70.00 was effective. You guess that you agree. As most marketing executives know, it's guesswork.

My guess is that they priced out more of the segment than they should have, and they are going to sell significantly fewer copies, and make significantly less money, strategically limiting sales. Look around you. Have you noticed how that same what-the-market-will-bear strategy has been working in other industries? I have.

It's okay; Evans doesn't need to sell very many books. And he won't

Last edited by Kevin Finnerty; Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 09:24pm.
  #45 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 05, 2009, 09:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Chasing the dream
Posts: 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty View Post
That's great. They guessed that pricing it at $70.00 was effective. You guess that you agree. As most marketing executives know, it's guesswork.

My guess is that they priced out more of the segment than they should have, and they are going to sell significantly fewer copies, and make significantly less money, strategically limiting sales. Look around you. Have you noticed how that same what-the-market-will-bear strategy has been working in other industries? I have.
Either you can't read, or simply refuse to accept the fact there are others who know more than you do. No one is guessing but you.

Your knowledge of pricing is apparently based on what you see in commercials. Be sure to order now and get the paring knife for no extra charge.

No one said anything about "what the market would bear." A price study is far more than that and takes expenses, including production, promotion, distribution and other factors such as size of the target population and their demonstrated willingness to choose product over money into account. It is more than, "Gee, I bet if we lower the price thousands more would buy the product."

Umpires who visit sites such as this are not the norm in amateur umpiring. The majority of amateur umpires do not go to clinics, do not purchase study materials and do not post at umpire sites.

Lowering the price does not lower expenses and most, yes, most, products do not realize the significant increase in sales you estimate when prices are lowered.

When lowering a price by 50%, expense are not lowered and sales must double to avoid a drop in revenue. This manual is in its first and most expensive run. It is totally illogical and unreasonable to expect a deep discount of any publication in its first run.

I have been involved in marketing in the entertainment and industrial fields for over 20 years. I have my MBA. I am not guessing.

But I have to admit, I am entertained by your willingness to go on and on and continue to demonstrate that you are clueless at the same time. So, please, feel free to go on and on some more.
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wendelstedt or Evans DKCanada Baseball 3 Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:46am
Jim Evans Publications shawnoilers Baseball 1 Mon Mar 22, 2004 03:27pm
Evans or Wendlestedt? Umpire_Jeremy Baseball 5 Mon Jul 01, 2002 09:10pm
What's Jim Evans training like? Roland Wiederaenders Baseball 0 Mon Mar 13, 2000 12:51pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:03pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1