Evans 2-man manual

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

It always cracks me up whenever anyone prices something at a rate that will simply squelch sales of the product. If this book wasn't priced so exorbitantly, thousands more umpires would buy it. Thousands. Even used or thrashed copies like the one they sent me.

It took me until this week to unload that much, even though I was introduced to it sometime late last year. And I'm pretty loose with the change when it comes to umpiring. It's a truly outstanding publication; it's too bad most umpires will never buy it just because of the price.

I had a business school professor that called the practice that they're employing "strategic sales control."

Neither you, nor your professor know the details to make such a judgement. Unless, of course you subscribe to a theory that all books of similar size and material should cost the same.

I had the pleasure of speaking with Jim prior the publication of his new manual. Pricing wasn't done willy-nilly. A survey was conducted of umpires, testing different price points. Additionally, the costs of different quantities of the first run were considered. Not to mention the cost, time and material that went into the writing and compilation.

As most marketing execs understand, lower pricing does not always result in a sufficient increase in sales to counter the reduction.

Also, Jim understands his market enough to realize the those umpires willing to pursue education and invest in materials to improve their craft, despite the internet, remains a small portion of the total number of umpires.

While you seem to portray yourself as an expert on everything that gets discussed, there are others who know what they are doing.

If you are unhappy, you have two choices. Fix the problem or continue whining.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Kevin, if you're so unhappy, make a phone call and ask for a new one.

Naw ... it's something that gets well-used after awhile, it's just that it's an insult to pay that much for something that is damaged.

It's a really detailed, well organized manual. Wow! Great stuff. Don't want to put it down long enough to send it back.

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

I consider this an umpiring text book. The same sort of book you'd get if you went to attend these classes.

Its no different than if you were interested in religion and wanted to get a religion 101 textbook in leiu or to supplement a class. And those text books, yes, in their paperback format, run you about the same as this Evans book.

Jim just isn't selling a book here, he's selling his umpire knowledge and training system. No different than if you wanted to buy a scholar's knowledge on any other subject in acadamia...!

My second kid is now in year two of college and my daughter just graduated. They both attended high schools where I had to buy all their text books. I started buying overpriced paperback text books in 2001, and I'll be buying them for three more years at least.

And it's the first thing I thought of when I saw this late last year when it first came out ... just like you described! Another $70.00 college text book!

Originally Posted by Ump153

Neither you, nor your professor know the details to make such a judgement. Unless, of course you subscribe to a theory that all books of similar size and material should cost the same.

I had the pleasure of speaking with Jim prior the publication of his new manual. Pricing wasn't done willy-nilly. A survey was conducted of umpires, testing different price points. Additionally, the costs of different quantities of the first run were considered. Not to mention the cost, time and material that went into the writing and compilation.

As most marketing execs understand, lower pricing does not always result in a sufficient increase in sales to counter the reduction.

Also, Jim understands his market enough to realize the those umpires willing to pursue education and invest in materials to improve their craft, despite the internet, remains a small portion of the total number of umpires.

While you seem to portray yourself as an expert on everything that gets discussed, there are others who know what they are doing.

If you are unhappy, you have two choices. Fix the problem or continue whining.

I'm not whining; I'm not speaking for myself (I gladly made the expense); and I'm not an expert. I'm speaking for the segment of the umpiring fraternity that would buy it if it were reasonably priced.

And Jim and his analysts would all make considerably more money, and more umpires across the land would benefit from this marvelous manual and its thorough and well-organized lessons. That's my educated guess, not an expert opinion.

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

And Jim and his analysts would all make considerably more money, and more umpires across the land would benefit from this marvelous manual and its thorough and well-organized lessons. That's my educated guess, not an expert opinion.

But perhaps, just perhaps, Jim felt that he didn't want this info in to many hands because it would replace, in the minds of the consumer, the value of going to either 5 week camp or weekend camps in the summer...

Maybe he wasn't trying to replace the Red Book. Maybe he was just trying to make a pitch to serious umpires about his camp. Who knows. Its his buisness decision, and your consumer decision to buy it or not.

He doesn't tell you whether or not you should buy it at that price, perhaps you shouldn't tell him what price he should sell HIS possessions at.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty;618911. That's my educated [B

guess[/B], not an expert opinion.

Something we can agree upon.

[Kevin Finnerty]

But it's a well-educated guess, unlike yours: "As most marketing execs understand, lower pricing does not always result in a sufficient increase in sales to counter the reduction."

Oh, they do?? Well, look around you!

Now, in this case, one of us is wrong about whether Evans's book would enjoy greater sales and greater impact if it were priced reasonably. Why don't you take a guess who that is.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Now, in this case, one of us is wrong about whether Evans's book would enjoy greater sales and greater impact if it were priced reasonably. Why don't you take a guess who that is.

You guys are arguing different things. You are arguing "sales and impact," he is arguing "profit."

No one (I don't think) disputes that sales increase as the price decreases.

There's also the matter of the value words "priced reasonably." Some might think that $120 is "reasonable" for the product. Other's might think that $120 is high, but $80 is reasonable. You think that $80 is high, but $40 (or some such number) is reasonable. I think it would be reasonable for him to pay me $80 to read it.

It's not really any different from the discussion about the titanium masks. For you "spending a game check" to get the mask was worth it -- the price (or in this instance the price difference) was reasonable. For others it wasn't -- but you seemed to have a hard time understanding that (or at least that's how I interpreted / remember your posts). Now you seem to have a hard time understanding (again, my reading of your posts) how someone can view this purchase at this price as reasonable.

To be clear, I understand how / why you came to those conclusions for you and for your values. But, I also understand how others might come to a different conclusion on one or both items, for their values (and for where they are in their umpire career).

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It's not really any different from the discussion about the titanium masks. For you "spending a game check" to get the mask was worth it

Bob, where can I sign up for these games where one game check will pay for my titanium mask? I'll do 3 a day 7 days a week.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

But it's a well-educated guess, unlike yours: "As most marketing execs understand, lower pricing does not always result in a sufficient increase in sales to counter the reduction."

Oh, they do?? Well, look around you!

Now, in this case, one of us is wrong about whether Evans's book would enjoy greater sales and greater impact if it were priced reasonably. Why don't you take a guess who that is.

Oh, I know who that is.

The key word to those of us who ARE marketing executives is "always."

Often, a 50% reduction in price does not result in the doubling of sales, which would be required for revenue to stay the same. If this is to hard for you to understand, I have some reasonably priced basic marketing texts I could give you.

Again, unlike your opinion, these matters were studied and decisions were made based on facts.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Ump153

Oh, I know who that is.

The key word to those of us who ARE marketing executives is "always."

Often, a 50% reduction in price does not result in the doubling of sales, which would be required for revenue to stay the same. If this is to hard for you to understand, I have some reasonably priced basic marketing texts I could give you.

Again, unlike your opinion, these matters were studied and decisions were made based on facts.

That's great. They guessed that pricing it at $70.00 was effective. You guess that you agree. As most marketing executives know, it's guesswork.

My guess is that they priced out more of the segment than they should have, and they are going to sell significantly fewer copies, and make significantly less money, strategically limiting sales. Look around you. Have you noticed how that same what-the-market-will-bear strategy has been working in other industries? I have.

It's okay; Evans doesn't need to sell very many books. And he won't

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

That's great. They guessed that pricing it at $70.00 was effective. You guess that you agree. As most marketing executives know, it's guesswork.

My guess is that they priced out more of the segment than they should have, and they are going to sell significantly fewer copies, and make significantly less money, strategically limiting sales. Look around you. Have you noticed how that same what-the-market-will-bear strategy has been working in other industries? I have.

Either you can't read, or simply refuse to accept the fact there are others who know more than you do. No one is guessing but you.

Your knowledge of pricing is apparently based on what you see in commercials. Be sure to order now and get the paring knife for no extra charge.

No one said anything about "what the market would bear." A price study is far more than that and takes expenses, including production, promotion, distribution and other factors such as size of the target population and their demonstrated willingness to choose product over money into account. It is more than, "Gee, I bet if we lower the price thousands more would buy the product."

Umpires who visit sites such as this are not the norm in amateur umpiring. The majority of amateur umpires do not go to clinics, do not purchase study materials and do not post at umpire sites.

Lowering the price does not lower expenses and most, yes, most, products do not realize the significant increase in sales you estimate when prices are lowered.

When lowering a price by 50%, expense are not lowered and sales must double to avoid a drop in revenue. This manual is in its first and most expensive run. It is totally illogical and unreasonable to expect a deep discount of any publication in its first run.

I have been involved in marketing in the entertainment and industrial fields for over 20 years. I have my MBA. I am not guessing.

But I have to admit, I am entertained by your willingness to go on and on and continue to demonstrate that you are clueless at the same time. So, please, feel free to go on and on some more.