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[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by cc6

Isn't a coach falling down on purpose to trip a first baseman interference with a throw? My reasoning is that the ball was thrown, and the first baseman is chasing the wild throw. Different than fielding which would be a batted ball. Am I wrong?

Yes, intentionally interfering is interference. Why are you making this more difficult than it really is? If the ball just happens to hit the base coach (or on deck hitter), it is not interference. Damn, this is really starting to get old.

[cc6]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Yes, intentionally interfering is interference. Why are you making this more difficult than it really is? If the ball just happens to hit the base coach (or on deck hitter), it is not interference. Damn, this is really starting to get old.

Obviously the situation you described is not interference. I don't think that is what SAump was saying. He was talking about intentional interference. Hard to know what anybody's argument is though with an entire thread deleted, and this one filled with monstrously long posts.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by cc6

Obviously the situation you described is not interference. I don't think that is what SAump was saying. He was talking about intentional interference. Hard to know what anybody's argument is though with an entire thread deleted, and this one filled with monstrously long posts.

No, SA is still saying that the OP from the other thread is interference. Try to keep up here!

[cc6]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Try to keep up here!

Yeah good luck to me on that.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Yes, intentionally interfering is interference. Why are you making this more difficult than it really is? If the ball just happens to hit the base coach (or on deck hitter), it is not interference. Damn, this is really starting to get old.

SAump is saying coach must make an effort to get out of the way and fail. One has to have a caseplay supported by rule like this one. CC6 provide one. SDS has not. Now he is putting words in my mouth. We are not discussing any play at 1B or 3B or ODC here.

If he wants to put words in my mouth, the base coach or ODH is just happening to be 20 feet from home plate. SDS states 5.08 protect the umpire, the base coach and the ODH. Have you seen many umpires hit by an errant relay throw 10-20 feet from the plate. What is the base coach or ODH doing that close to HP {trying to umpire}? This is interference with the defense.

The ODH was excited because a hit was about to score two runs. In his excitement, he forgot to pay attention to the incoming throw and was "accidentally" hit while supporting his teammate who may have scored on the play. SDS want to enforce unintentional interference 5.08 which amounts to no interference, play off the deflection of BC or ODH. Wrong or right? He has a gathering of supporters.

ODH just happened to be there accidentally?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by SAump

ODH just happened to be there accidentally?

Have you ever umpired a single game? The on-deck hitter has a job to do with runners trying to score, and that is telling them what to do. To do so, he'll often be 10-20 feet from the plate. That is his job.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by Matt

Have you ever umpired a single game? The on-deck hitter has a job to do with runners trying to score, and that is telling them what to do. To do so, he'll often be 10-20 feet from the plate. That is his job.

Any umpire here ever been hit 10-20 feet from HP by an undeflected throw from the OF? I haven't in all my years.

Come Jurassic Park, fess up, as old as you are, ever happen once?
I can see the empathy for the ODH oozing from your eyes. Are those teardrops? Someone has to protect him, it might as well be you.

Do you expect a college athlete to be so dumb as to interfere with a throw to HP that a rule is needed to protect him from unintentionally interfering with a throw. Does this actually seem reasonable, i.e. base on reality of 5.08 or previous experience of all our readers?

I would eject him and enjoy it at the same moment. How many times have I said that. Coach, you better warm up another batter. This one here is going to go sit on the other side of the fence for his safety.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by SAump

Any umpire here ever been hit 10-20 feet from HP by an undeflected throw from the OF? I haven't in all my years.

Come Jurassic Park, fess up, as old as you are, ever happen once?
I can see the empathy for the ODH oozing from your eyes. Are those teardrops? Someone has to protect him, it might as well be you.

Do you expect a college athlete to be so dumb as to interfere with a throw to HP that a rule is needed to protect him from unintentionally interfering with a throw. Does this actually seem reasonable, i.e. base on reality or previous experience of our readers?

I would eject him and enjoy it at the same moment. How many times have I said that. Coach, you better warm up another batter. This one here is going to go sit on the other side of the fence for his safety.

Seriously--alcohol and Risperidone don't mix.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Yeah SA, you need to seriously step back from that crack pipe!

[SAump]

3.17 Players and substitutes of both teams shall confine themselves to their team’s benches unless actually participating in the play or preparing to enter the game, or coaching at first or third base. No one except players, substitutes, managers, coaches, trainers and bat boys shall occupy a bench during a game.
PENALTY: For violation the umpire may, after warning, remove the offender from the field.

3.16 protect ODH in OP?

3.15 (except members of the offensive team participating in the game, or a coach in the coach’s box, or an umpire)
NOTE: See Rule 7.11 for individuals excepted above, also see Rule 7.08 (b).

Not an ounce of integrity, a pound of authoritative opinion or a ton of actually in the entire lot.
Does ODH out of ODH area have free range? Is participation by the ODH allowed? Is there a rule that answers these question? Yes

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by SAump

3.17 Players and substitutes of both teams shall confine themselves to their team’s benches unless actually participating in the play or preparing to enter the game, or coaching at first or third base. No one except players, substitutes, managers, coaches, trainers and bat boys shall occupy a bench during a game.
PENALTY: For violation the umpire may, after warning, remove the offender from the field.


Does ODH out of ODH area have free range? Is participation by the ODH allowed? Is there a rule that answers these question? Yes

Although not directly, I believe there is sufficient allowance shown above to say he is allowed there.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by SAump

Responding to each quip now counts against me.


Its okay to call interference.
OP: ODH is hit by a thrown ball from the OF 15 feet from HP.
The fielder didn't mean to hit him. The ODH didn't mean to let it touch him either. The runner who just scored, the catcher, the pitcher and the umpire are all standing nearby. The playing action occurred 20 feet from the ODC which is empty, his bat lying on the ground. The player was clearing a bat (bat boy) at the time of contact and was in the area of the plate with permission from his coach. It, intent of the runner rounding 3B, is unknown.

I hope I have it straight this time.

Here is the Original Situation as I remember. Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying or my memory is wrong:

"R1 (perhaps other runners). Ball hit to right field. R1 arrives at third and rounds as the throw from F9 sail in from the outfield. The throw is off target (about 15-20 feet up the third baseline from HP). Meanwhile, the ODH leave the ODC to retrieve the bat from the HP area. The throw from F9 passes F2 untouched and strikes the bat the ODH is holding. The ball goes into DBT.

Neither umpire felt the ODH contacted the thrown ball intentionally."

Is that right? Am I missing something?

Originally Posted by SAump

See previous page. What did he say,

In which post do you have an opinion/interpretation from Jim Evans, Wendelstedt boys, etc? I can't find it when I read through the thread

-Josh

[johnnyg08]

I think the closet place to find anything from the big boys on this is to have a citation from the MLBUM. That's how Evans and Weldelstedt will interpret it. What about PBUC?

[SAump]

Originally Posted by jdmara

Is that right? Am I missing something?

In which post do you have an opinion/interpretation from Jim Evans, Wendelstedt boys, etc? I can't find it when I read through the thread

-Josh

Your missing the part of rule 3.15 interference, kill it and award/penalize. IOW out at 3B {Intent}, return to 3B (Unintent) and play on (no interference {meaning NONE}. This is justified by rule but you do not choose this option. The ball went directly from ODH to DBT and you state "unintent by offense on throw amounts to no interference of ODH, {see 3.15 BC at 1B}." You play on and award 2 bases because of the "bad" throw. R1 scores from 3B and B/R scores or stops at 3B. {Unsupported by SLAS, et all }

The defense is horrified by the umpires reaction that a hustling B/R at 2B may be allowed to walk in through no fault of their own. Doing what they practice without ODH interference. I maintain the ODH is not excused for his actions. Although he is a non-participant, the court record indicates that he indeed lost that status sometime between ODH and hit by a thrown ball. I maintain the real definition of NO interference has been sanitized to protect ODH.

Although I state, treat as ball boy or coach and kill it. Others say allow play to continue. The umpire crew also enforced penalty for interference by a member of the offense team. Everyone of you maintain they erred. I maintain their ruling is justified by rule. You do not provide valid support to justify play on. I state you weave a bunch of small parts into a whole. It sounds good, but it falls apart on paper. Its been a task to get you boys to accept the black and white parts of a book. You insist on providing the gray matter for discussion. This is the actual opposite of the rising fast ball discussion. SAump supporting C&T of the game and you supporting "inventions of fantasy" baseball.

Roder
(1) blatantly and avoidably hinders [ a fielder's try to field a fair or catchable batted ball or ] thrown ball. A coach must try to avoid a fielder trying to field. If he tries to avoid, but contacts a fielder, it is not interference. In most cases, a coach who does not try to avoid contact with a fielder will have interfered. [5.08] [7.11]

Pete Booth and DG brought this up for consideration and both were told that it did not apply because of NO possible "play" occurring at TOI. That is one of many invalid buzzwords designed to absolve ODH from "participation" in the OP. SLAS provides rule support removing the fuzziness from the words like unintentional, play, home plate area, bat in hands, ODH-batboy, etc to employ 7.11. The ODH has to clear the ODC (BRD), not the bat (unsupported). There is no evidence supporting Matt's comments about coaching at HP (unsupported), although substantiated by Bobbybannaduck, rule 7.09d still applies to the OP..

[GA Umpire]

As I stated in the other thread, call INT on the bat. Throw the SOB out of the game until it can learn to keep its a$$ out of the way. Make the ODH get a new bat until his other one can behave better. Remove the runners. Put the 3B coach on 3rd. Put the 1B coach on 1B. Let them run and try to score. And, tell F3 to make better throws or get off the field as well. Tell F2 to learn to get in front of that bad throw or he will join F3.

Did I miss anything other than what the correct call is?