The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Baseball (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/)
-   -   Set position stop (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/53696-set-position-stop.html)

SanDiegoSteve Sun Jun 21, 2009 08:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 610047)
According to Evan's balk video -- the hands finish moving down before the leg begins moving up.

This is how I was taught way back when. Must have gotten that info from similar sources as Mr. Evans did.

DG Sun Jun 21, 2009 09:17pm

Looks ok to me.

JR12 Sun Jun 21, 2009 09:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 609976)
I found it, although it wasn't easy.

Borderline, my a$$. In the "real world" this is clearly a no-stop balk. They simply don't call that in the Major Leagues anymore.


Thank you! I was afraid to say that, thought I might get jumped on!

Kevin Finnerty Sun Jun 21, 2009 09:24pm

I was watching Game 1 of the 1968 Series, and Bob Gibson balked constantly on the way to his 17-K masterpiece. He didn't need to throw too many pitches from the stretch, but he balked on virtually every one.

umpjim Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:11pm

I'm seeing a lot of that double stop stuff. Watched it in the CWS. So far nobody is testing it by stealing on the first move after the first stop so if nobody complains then I guess it's not called.

Ump153 Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve (Post 610077)
This is how I was taught way back when. Must have gotten that info from similar sources as Mr. Evans did.

Doubtful.

Rich Ives Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty (Post 610091)
I was watching Game 1 of the 1968 Series, and Bob Gibson balked constantly on the way to his 17-K masterpiece. He didn't need to throw too many pitches from the stretch, but he balked on virtually every one.

The requirement to stop wasn't added until 1950. At that time the rule required a stop of at least one second.

The one second part was removed in 1964.

Thus, in 1968 a change of direction was considerd to be a stop.
Gibson was legal.

The "discernable stop" wasn't added until 1988.

SanDiegoSteve Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ump153 (Post 610098)
Doubtful.

What do you mean, doubtful? I learned how to umpire from pro school grads, MiLB and MLB umpires. So I believe those would be similar to Jim Evans' sources, as he learned from professionals as well. You shouldn't make smart as$ comments when you don't know WTF you're talking about.

bobbybanaduck Mon Jun 22, 2009 02:04am

the no stop balk is generally only called in pro ball if the pitcher is gaining an advantage...meaning it is a running situation and the runner(s) would be put at a disadvantage by the picther not coming to a hard set. it is not a running situation when the bases are full, which was the case in the video referenced.

JR12 Mon Jun 22, 2009 01:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck (Post 610112)
the no stop balk is generally only called in pro ball if the pitcher is gaining an advantage...meaning it is a running situation and the runner(s) would be put at a disadvantage by the picther not coming to a hard set. it is not a running situation when the bases are full, which was the case in the video referenced.

And what Ump wants to Balk in the winning run?

Ump153 Mon Jun 22, 2009 02:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve (Post 610108)
What do you mean, doubtful? I learned how to umpire from pro school grads, MiLB and MLB umpires. So I believe those would be similar to Jim Evans' sources, as he learned from professionals as well. You shouldn't make smart as$ comments when you don't know WTF you're talking about.

So because you "learned to umpire from proschool grads, etc" that means you had the sources Evans had? Nope. At best you may have learned from those who learned from him.

I know that the sources Jim relied on when formulating his interpretations didn't include anyone you had access to. That's not smart a$$, that's a fact.

johnnyg08 Mon Jun 22, 2009 02:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR12 (Post 610187)
And what Ump wants to Balk in the winning run?


probably not many of us, but we're interested in making the correct call, not necessarily when the violation occurs.

SanDiegoSteve Mon Jun 22, 2009 03:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ump153 (Post 610203)
So because you "learned to umpire from proschool grads, etc" that means you had the sources Evans had? Nope. At best you may have learned from those who learned from him.

I know that the sources Jim relied on when formulating his interpretations didn't include anyone you had access to. That's not smart a$$, that's a fact.

First off, I said "similar" sources, not "identical" sources. Learn to read. I didn't learn from people who learned from him, I learned LONG before Jim Evans even dreamed of having an umpire school or any balk video. The people I learned from are the people that Jim Evans worked with and went to umpire school with.

Secondly, I had access to Paul Runge, Doug Harvey and Mike Winters. I've also umpired with Mike and Ray DiMuro as well as Brian Runge, not to mention the tons of MiLB umpires I've had the pleasure of calling some games with. When I was coming up, our association had as guest speakers John Kibler, Ed Runge, Shag Crawford, Emmit Ashford, Eric Gregg and several other top-level officials. These people did not attend Jim Evans Umpire Academy.

Ump153 Mon Jun 22, 2009 03:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve (Post 610209)
First off, I said "similar" sources, not "identical" sources. Learn to read. I didn't learn from people who learned from him, I learned LONG before Jim Evans even dreamed of having an umpire school or any balk video. The people I learned from are the people that Jim Evans worked with and went to umpire school with.

Secondly, I had access to Paul Runge, Doug Harvey and Mike Winters. I've also umpired with Mike and Ray DiMuro as well as Brian Runge, not to mention the tons of MiLB umpires I've had the pleasure of calling some games with. When I was coming up, our association had as guest speakers John Kibler, Ed Runge, Shag Crawford, Emmit Ashford, Eric Gregg and several other top-level officials. These people did not attend Jim Evans Umpire Academy.

Wow. Guest speakers. Imagine that.

Okay, exactly how long ago did you formulate your postion on this topic? Hmm? And with whom did you consult before finalizing your opinion? And was this before or after your stint in the majors?

SanDiegoSteve Mon Jun 22, 2009 04:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ump153 (Post 610215)
Wow. Guest speakers. Imagine that.

Okay, exactly how long ago did you formulate your postion on this topic? Hmm? And with whom did you consult before finalizing your opinion? And was this before or after your stint in the majors?

Why are you being so disrespectful to me? I don't understand your reasoning.

I'll take your questions one at a time:

1. In 1986, when I started umpiring baseball (yes, the year Jim worked his 3rd World Series)
2. It was an instructed interpretation that all members learned together in bi-weekly classes which were (and still are) manditory.
3. I never said that I worked in the majors. I said I've worked with these umpires, and it was in fall games and tournaments during their off-seasons both before and after their minor league assignments.

And for as long as he has been a major league umpire, Mike Winters has been a classroom instructor in our association, and we were always invited to pick his brain on any subject.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:53pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1