Why not another? 9U play

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

Since the other thread was closed before I could respond to your post, I will put it here.


You want to know why coaches and players are referred to as "rats" in general. You have proven why in this thread. You knew what you told the umpire was wrong. You told it to him anyway hoping he would(and did) believe you and not make the correct call. This is being a "rat" as it is put. Find as many ways as possible to bend or break the rules and hope the officials don't catch it. That is why the term "Rat" is given to coaches. It has nothing to do with the confrontational ones. It has everything to do with the nature of many coaches.

And, if the player does fess up to not catching a fly ball, then he is showing morals to not cheat to win. He knew he missed it and did not lie about it. I can't believe you called an honest player a moron. You have clearly showed you are a wolf in sheep's clothing on the field(coach dressed up like an umpire). And, you wonder why so many attack you when you post things. You are always negative toward umpires who do not agree with you hence your other thread. And, you attempt to convince umpires they are wrong when they are right. And, you wonder why coaches/players are referred to as "Rats". Go figure.

Any player that says, "No, I did not catch it" is a moron and also benched.

I think I did nail it on the head for some of you in the piety lobby...A player or coach or manager should help the umpire who screwed up a call in their favor or they are rats. But, they only should help the umpire fix his call if the umpire erred in their favor.

The insanity of your position cannot be overstated.

Why should a coach or manager help the umpire but not the reverse?

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Any player that says, "No, I did not catch it" is a moron and also benched.

I think I did nail it on the head for some of you in the piety lobby...A player or coach or manager should help the umpire who screwed up a call in their favor or they are rats. But, only should they help the umpire fix his call if the umpire erred In their favor.

The insanity of your position cannot be overstated.

Why should a coach or manager help the umpire but not the reverse?

I didn't say they should. I said those who do what you did are referred to as "rats". It is amazing how you defend cheating. Yet, you try to be an umpire. Your integrity as an umpire would be shot if the other coaches knew what you do. And, well, your integrity as a coach is already shot b/c coaches have no integrity.

I said those who do not do what you did show integrity and morals. Not "cheat to win at all costs" idea.

Every post you make shows why coaches are perceived as "rats". I can't believe you don't see it but you clearly don't. Keep being a rat with each post.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

I didn't say they should. I said those who do what you did are referred to as "rats". It is amazing how you defend cheating. Yet, you try to be an umpire. Your integrity as an umpire would be shot if the other coaches knew what you do. And, well, your integrity as a coach is already shot b/c coaches have no integrity.

I said those who do not do what you did show integrity and morals. Not "cheat to win at all costs" idea.

Every post you make shows why coaches are perceived as "rats". I can't believe you don't see it but you clearly don't. Keep being a rat with each post.

I am just curious here, GA UMPIRE...if that is your real name...

Have you ever called a pitch a strike and then realized it was a ball? Did you change it for the integrity of the game? Have you ever called a pitch a strike that you KNEW was a ball? Have you ever given a "ball off the plate" as your strike zone? Have you ever called a guy out on a ball out of the zone because he was a jerk on strike two? Have you ever called a guy safe or out and then realized you kicked the call. Did you then tell everyone that you blew it and changed the call? Do you criticize umpires for doing any of these things? How about the umpires that laugh about getting outs and strikes that don't exist? What about the umpires who call guys out because "the ball was there"...even if the tag was not.

You want an outfielder to say "NO! I did not catch it! call him SAFE!" You take the cake.

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I am just curious here, GA UMPIRE...if that is your real name...

Have you ever called a pitch a strike and then realized it was a ball? Did you change it for the integrity of the game? Have you ever called a pitch a strike that you KNEW was a ball? Have you ever given a "ball off the plate" as your strike zone? Have you ever called a guy out n a ball out of the zone because he was a jerk on strike two? Have you ever criticized an umpire for doing the same? Have you ever called a guy safe or out and then realized you kicked the call. Did you then tell everyone that you blew it and changed the call?

You want an outfielder to say "NO! I did not catch it! call him SAFE!" You take the cake.

A person's integrity and integrity of the game are 2 totally different things.

Integrity of the game is calling the game within the rules. If the umpire blows the call, he has not ruined the integrity of the game. He just missed it. And, a judgment call does not change just b/c the umpire may think he blew the judgment. If there is a rule misapplied(as in your play), then the judgment call can be changed such as first baseman's foot comes off the bag. All of that still upholds the integrity of the game b/c it is part of the game and rules.

A player/coach informing the umpire of what the correct call is shows integrity of the person. Doesn't mean the call will change. It just means the person has morals and integrity. And, that goes a long way. Just like when an umpire knows a coach/player is a "rat". He does not get the benefit of the doubt at that point b/c he will do/say anything to get an advantage.

I'm not saying you have to do that by no means. All I am saying is don't question why others attack you when you pull "rat" tactics and come on here to brag about them. Do what you want. If you get busted, well, then you deserve the treatment you get such as close plays not going your way. Or, your fellow coaches giving you he!! as an umpire b/c they already know the levels you will stoop to. That is all I am saying.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

A person's integrity and integrity of the game are 2 totally different things.

Integrity of the game is calling the game within the rules. If the umpire blows the call, he has not ruined the integrity of the game. He just missed it. And, a judgment call does not change just b/c the umpire may think he blew the judgment. If there is a rule misapplied(as in your play), then the judgment call can be changed such as first baseman's foot comes off the bag. All of that still upholds the integrity of the game b/c it is part of the game and rules.

A player/coach informing the umpire of what the correct call is shows integrity of the person. Doesn't mean the call will change. It just means the person has morals and integrity. And, that goes a long way. Just like when an umpire knows a coach/player is a "rat". He does not get the benefit of the doubt at that point b/c he will do/say anything to get an advantage.

I'm not saying you have to do that by no means. All I am saying is don't question why others attack you when you pull "rat" tactics and come on here to brag about them. Do what you want. If you get busted, well, then you deserve the treatment you get such as close plays not going your way. Or, your fellow coaches giving you he!! as an umpire b/c they already know the levels you will stoop to. That is all I am saying.

Again, to clarify...a player/coach is a rat unless he corrects favorable calls in his favor. An umpire is not a rat if he rules against a team on close plays for the sole reason that he deems the coach to be a rat.

Also, an umpire has no responsibility to correct an incorrect judgment call(even if he realizes he kicked it)...the team who benefitted from that call should try and get it corrected in order to show integrity...and of course, if they do not...they are all rats.

In other words, umpires start out with the understanding that they are good, honest folks. Players/coaches are bad unless they take extraordinary efforts to help umpires correct calls that were ruled in their favor...but only calls in their favor. We really want them to keep their yaps shut if we screw them with a bad call.

[DonInKansas]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

We really want them to keep their yaps shut

Stop right there. You have just described Utopia.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Any player that says, "No, I did not catch it" is a moron and also benched.

And this sends what message to the player?

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by waltjp

And this sends what message to the player?

Right. If the player doesn't cheat with the coach, then he sits down b/c he is showing integrity.

OMG, a 9 y/o has more integrity than an adult and shows it.

[cc6]

Mr. Umpire told me that I am acting like a coach on an umpire board. I will attempt an objective perspective, which is hard to do after all the inflammatory postings made in the OP's direction.

One of the coach's jobs is to win games using good sportsmanship.

The main debate is whether jwwashburn was breaking the rules of good sportsmanship when he tried to decieve the umpire.

Let's list some terms that we associate with sportsmanship, and discuss whether the attempt to decieve violated any of them.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by cc6

Mr. Umpire told me that I am acting like a coach on an umpire board. I will attempt an objective perspective, which is hard to do after all the inflammatory postings made in the OP's direction.

One of the coach's jobs is to win games using good sportsmanship.

The main debate is whether jwwashburn was breaking the rules of good sportsmanship when he tried to decieve the umpire.

Let's list some terms that we associate with sportsmanship, and discuss whether the attempt to decieve violated any of them.

I don't need to read any more negative comments about poor cell phone McGee. If you have any dignity left for Mr McGoo, why choose to continue to "dump on the young ump" and bring it here for the "umpteenth" time. All this could have been averted had the "coach" taught the little boy to run to the next base. There were some good comments provided by J Paco and others. But those comments have been "drowned out" trying to keep the rat in his box.

In summary 1) Rats have no business talking to the umpire after the game ends to clarify anything.
2) Rats have no business talking to the umpire between innings of a game to clarify anything. In short, the rat should have left the field without exchanging words with the umpire. He got away with some more cheese.
3) The only reason we discuss the proper or improper behavior of rats is to keep our cheese.

[DonInKansas]

Originally Posted by SAump

and bring it here for the "umpteenth" time.

HA! Umpteenth........

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by SAump

I don't need to read any more negative comments about poor cell phone McGee. If you have any dignity left for Mr McGoo, why choose to continue to "dump on the young ump" and bring it here for the "umpteenth" time. All this could have been averted had the "coach" taught the little boy to run to the next base.

The "young ump" is an adult who took a job that he was not qualified to do. He made no effort to do said job properly.

Incredible that you would say: "all this could have been averted....If the coach." The UMPIRE blew the incredibly easy call. He might have been the only person there that did not know that the kid was supposed to be out. Think about that...even the 9 year old players knew that this moron got the call wrong....even the grandmothers knew it. But, it is allllll the coach's fault.

Which is easier...teaching a 9 yr old to get to the base when he is crying or an adult umpire to call him out when he is tagged way off the base. Ohhh, poor Cell Phone McGhee had never seen a play like before.....the coach should have helped him....Booo hoooo!!!

The 9 yr old runner had never been beaned by a thrown ball while running before, either.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

1The "young ump" is an adult who took a job that he was not qualified to do. 2He made no effort to do said job properly.

Incredible that you would say: "all this could have been averted....If the coach." 3The UMPIRE blew the incredibly easy call. 4He might have been the only person there that did not know that the kid was supposed to be out. Think about that...5even the 9 year old players knew that this moron got the call wrong....6even the grandmothers knew it. But, it is allllll the coach's fault.

Guess you didn't understand my message. It would be easier to agree that yes, the young umpire did err. I would not go any further than that.

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Which is easier...teaching a 9 yr old to get to the base when he is crying or an adult umpire to call him out when he is tagged way off the base. Ohhh, poor Cell Phone McGhee had never seen a play like before.....the coach should have helped him....Booo hoooo!!!

The 9 yr old runner had never been beaned by a thrown ball while running before, either.

So you had a dumb ump, possibly two. It would have been easier to educate both umpires. Remember your team's objective to legally score that run. As you continue to suggest, this would have been impossible for you to do in front of your players, fans and the other team. Incredible that you would say all this again. But knowing that, telling little Johnny not to stop until he reached the next base safely would not be very hard at all.

[cc6]

Originally Posted by SAump

I don't need to read any more negative comments about poor cell phone McGee. If you have any dignity left for Mr McGoo, why choose to continue to "dump on the young ump" and bring it here for the "umpteenth" time. All this could have been averted had the "coach" taught the little boy to run to the next base. There were some good comments provided by J Paco and others. But those comments have been "drowned out" trying to keep the rat in his box.

In summary 1) Rats have no business talking to the umpire after the game ends to clarify anything.
2) Rats have no business talking to the umpire between innings of a game to clarify anything. In short, the rat should have left the field without exchanging words with the umpire. He got away with some more cheese.
3) The only reason we discuss the proper or improper behavior of rats is to keep our cheese.

Another inflammatory post. All these shots are taken at jwwashburn, yet my post to LMan saying it was addition by subtraction when he left the board a couple years ago gets deleted!?!?! Where is the fairness and consistency in what posts get deleted and which ones don't? The irony of it all is that JM, a former baseball coach, started this massive pile on.

[spokanelurker]

Seriously, SAump? You take that attitude onto the field and think that you can officiate with integrity. Keep telling yourself that!