I saw it out of the corener of my eye.

[jwwashburn]

I am coaching my son's 9-u team in a tournament. They can leave the base when the pitcher lets go of the ball.

We have a coach that has also coached girl's Fastpitch and the leadoff is the same. He taught ofur guys a good technique and they get a good push off of the base. Opposing coaches usually don't like this.

Any wayyyyyyy, Friday night we stole 2nd base twice in the first inning even though they had a catcher with a pretty good arm. The defensive coach yells: Are ya gonna let them leave early all night?

The next kid stole and the Home Plate Umpire called time(by the way, the signal for time is: mask in right hand and left fist with the arm at a 90 degree angle...to think I have been putting both hands over my head all of these years) he says: "The runner must go back to first, he left too early...this is your only warning!" I replied: "Mr. Umpire, how are you watching that from back there?" Him: I saw it out of the corner of my eye! I looked at him and said-I am not joking: "I cannot wait to see what San Diego Steve says about this play. He looked at me quite oddly.

Joe In Missouri

[Bishopcolle]

If you have two-man mechanics, I am gonna let the BU have this call all the way. If I am alone, I can watch for the runner leaving early FROM THE CORNER OF MY EYE. We do it all the time, in many circumstances. But they have to leave REALLY early to get that call, because "from the corner of my eye" gives me only an idea they left early and not total certainty. That's why they have to really be abusing it before I call it alone.....

[SanDiegoSteve]

San Diego Steve sez:

If I'm working alone, and that call is my responsibiliy, the runner would have to leave mighty early, like 3 or 4 steps, before I would consider calling that. Why would the umpire be looking at anything but the pitcher. I was always taught to let the ball take your eyes where they need to be, so I'm focused on the baseball, and what Shifty McCheat is doing with that ball on the mound. If I see the runner take off with my peripheral vision, then great. Otherwise, I ain't lookin' for it.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

If I'm working alone, and that call is my responsibility, the runner would have to leave mighty early, like 3 or 4 steps, before I would consider calling that.

I agree with Steve from San Diego. It's got to be a gross infraction before I'm calling it. "Coach, you want that call? - pay for a second umpire."

[jwwashburn]

I forgot to mention that there was a guy out in the field during the game that was not on our team and did not appear to be on the other team either. He was older than nine and players are not supposed to use cell phones on the field, are they? Maybe he was the base umpire?

[kylejt]

I called it twice last week in a game I did solo. Once at first and once at second. It's not that hard to do.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I am coaching my son's 9-u team in a tournament. They can leave the base when the pitcher lets go of the ball.

The next kid stole and the Home Plate Umpire called time(by the way, the signal for time is: mask in right hand and left fist with the arm at a 90 degree angle...to think I have been putting both hands over my head all of these years) he says: "The runner must go back to first, he left too early...this is your only warning!" I replied: "Mr. Umpire, how are you watching that from back there?" Him: I saw it out of the corner of my eye! I looked at him and said-I am not joking: "I cannot wait to see what San Diego Steve says about this play. He looked at me quite oddly.

Joe In Missouri

Well Joe , its not only obvious that you have no respect for a fellow official but in a 9 and under tourament, your also setting a poor example of how the kids shouldnt have any respect for them either. And then the gall to come on this site and brag about it.

Way to go Joe, your the man.....?

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Well Joe , its not only obvious that you have no respect for a fellow official but in a 9 and under tourament, your also setting a poor example of how the kids shouldnt have any respect for them either. And then the gall to come on this site and brag about it.

Way to go Joe, your the man.....?

jicecone: I guess I should have been a little more clear. I went and talked to the Home Plate Umpire and he is the only person that heard me because I was talking only to him. We have a very strict rule with our team about messing with umpires. They are not to question their calls or even make a face at them.

Do I have any respect for a guy that wore an umpire uniform, had no idea what he was doing and lied to me about a call? No, I do not. Do I have any respect for his wandering moron partner with the cell phone on the field? No, I do not.

However, I treated them with the respect that they had not earned. I did not yell at the moron. I calmly talked to him. When he lied to me, I made the smart alleck remark about San Diego Steve and walked away.

Joe in Missouri

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

jicecone: I guess I should have been a little more clear. I went and talked to the Home Plate Umpire and he is the only person that heard me because I was talking only to him. We have a very strict rule with our team about messing with umpires. They are not to question their calls or even make a face at them.

Do I have any respect for a guy that wore an umpire uniform, had no idea what he was doing and lied to me about a call? No, I do not. Do I have any respect for his wandering moron partner with the cell phone on the field? No, I do not.

However, I treated them with the respect that they had not earned. I did not yell at the moron. I calmly talked to him. When he lied to me, I made the smart alleck remark about San Diego Steve and walked away.

Joe in Missouri

OOOOORRRRRR, try this for size.

Don't say anything about the call and after the game speak to the umpires and tell them about your vast experience and diplomatically see if you could help ,what was obviously two inexperienced officials. They may not be receptive to your advice but at least you tried. Hey maybe some day they will pursue this officiating thing and be your partner. What are you going to do then? Every chance I ever had to teach other officials something, I took advantage of. And yes there are some ole geisers (like me) that are STILL learning.

Remember, we are expected to be perfect our very first game and get better from there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have a nice day

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by jicecone

OOOOORRRRRR, try this for size.

Don't say anything about the call and after the game speak to the umpires and tell them about your vast experience and diplomatically see if you could help ,what was obviously two inexperienced officials. They may not be receptive to your advice but at least you tried. Hey maybe some day they will pursue this officiating thing and be your partner. What are you going to do then? Every chance I ever had to teach other officials something, I took advantage of. And yes there are some ole geisers (like me) that are STILL learning.

Remember, we are expected to be perfect our very first game and get better from there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have a nice day

I was actually taking the advice of many people here to address it during the game and never, EVER do it after. I do not expect umpires at this level to be perfect or even mediocre. I do expect them to have some knowledge of some basic rules(the ball is live if it hits a runner) I do expect them not to lie to me.

Joe in Missouri

[RogersUmp]

I've never seen a 2-man crew at 9U. Must be a pretty wealthy association!

[Matt]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I was actually taking the advice of many people here to address it during the game and never, EVER do it after. I do not expect umpires at this level to be perfect or even mediocre. I do expect them to have some knowledge of some basic rules(the ball is live if it hits a runner)

Good for you for learning.

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I do expect them not to lie to me.

There are at least four more likely explanations as to the disagreement than the umpire lying to you. In no particular order:

1. He had the rule wrong.

2. You had the rule wrong.

3. He had the timing of the runner's jump wrong.

4. You had the timing of the runner's jump wrong.

The thing that scares me about your recent run-ins with umpires is that you are quick to assume some sort of malice on their part, as if there is an underhanded reason that they don't call what you think they should be calling.

[David B]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I was actually taking the advice of many people here to address it during the game and never, EVER do it after. I do not expect umpires at this level to be perfect or even mediocre. I do expect them to have some knowledge of some basic rules(the ball is live if it hits a runner) I do expect them not to lie to me.

Joe in Missouri

Bottom line is that you don't know what the umpire saw, so you cannot say he is lying to you.

He is the umpire and if he said he left early, then he left early. We as coaches and parents just have to live with it.

We all make mistakes, sounds like he might have made one, but you can't just make accusations for things you don't know.

I used to call small ball, and you can easily see runners at 1st or 2nd if they leave early. Now R3 that's too hard, but easy for R1 or R2.

Thanks
David

[DG]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

They can leave the base when the pitcher lets go of the ball.

What rule set allows runners to leave the bag when the pitcher releases the ball?

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by DG

What rule set allows runners to leave the bag when the pitcher releases the ball?

Different associations call it different things...but, it what I have seen for most 9u tournaments and leagues. Why they do not use the Little League rule, I do not know. I think Little League allows the runner to leave once the ball is hit or gets to Home Plate?